Elephant Ears: How Alfredo Paz Found His Way Back to Music After Burnout

Alfredo Paz: I made music until I, was 24, 25 years old, and then I gave up. I completely quit making music until four or five years ago when I pick it up again.Towards the end before I quit, we were doing very well. We were recording, we were going to the studios, we were being playing in radio stations. Eventually, you know, we all kind of burn out.

Becky Boyland: Welcome to Second Verse, the podcast that celebrates the stories of indie artists finding their second act in music and in themselves. I'm your host, Becky Boyland, singer-songwriter, StoryBrand certified brand messaging expert and web developer. If you've ever felt like the dreams you set aside might still be waiting for you, you're in the right place.

Today I'm joined by a talented producer, songwriter, and sound designer who's brought an imaginative and emotional touch to projects around the world: Alfredo Paz, known professionally as Elephant Ears. After stepping away from performing music for years, Alfredo found his way back during the pandemic, bringing together his love for sonic storytelling and his deep roots in live sound, and film.

His journey reminds us that it's never too late to rekindle our creative spark, and that sometimes the skills we develop along the way make our second verse even richer than the first. Let's dive into his inspiring and thoughtful story. It's time for Alfredo's Second Verse.

Welcome, Alfredo. Thank you so much for being on Second Verse today.

Alfredo Paz: Hi, Becky. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here with you today.

Becky Boyland: You are, I guess I could say, multihyphenate, or a lot of commas, because you are a producer and a sound designer, a songwriter, and a live sound engineer, and you go by Elephant Ears, which we will get into that in a little bit.

But talk about when music first came into your life and what was that like?

Alfredo Paz: I've always listened to a lot of music. One of my first memory of listening to music was, in my grandfather house, one of my grandfathers, He used to listen to a lot of, classical music. one day I remembered listening to this massive symphony piece.

That kind of stuck in my mind. And then my dad also has a big record collection, and I used to arrive back from school and pull those. vinyls, I used to pull them and play them every, every afternoon, listen to one or two albums.

And I was always fascinated, you know, with the sounds and how they were made. You know, I was always kind of listening to music and trying to understand what they were making. Andthat really attracted me since the beginning. So that's how I started listening to music.

And then I started learning music when I was about 11, 12 years old by accident. I was born premature, so I had very small motor skill difficulties. And one of the therapist suggested to my mom, why you don't, put him into some sort of music lesson, some sort of a sport where he used the two hands and we had, one electric organ at home.

So here we are. I started learning the organ and as soon as I started playing, you know, I love it, I didn't used to play too much at the beginning, but I was always attracted with the same, you know, the electric organs has all the sounds. So I was always playing and discovering the sounds and play, not doing too much the homeworks, but you know, I was always improvising.

And so yes, that's sort of how I started and how I got attracted to music.

Becky Boyland: That's such a forward thinking therapist for that time to suggest that, and I think that's just amazing. But I really love too, as you were explaining that you were trying to figure out the sounds. Obviously a lot of casual listeners just hear the overall of a piece, whatever it is.

And that really does separate future producers and engineers trying to figure out how do I make that thing and that type of critical listening that we just can't help ourselves and have to get very, very deep into the music.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah. Sometimes it's difficult to listen to music now because I'm just focusing, oh God, what have they done there? Or what, you know, so it is hard to to listen subjectively sometime, and, you know, separate, but yeah. But I guess, I don't know, is that something on the brain that is different?

I dunno. But I was always attracted to differentiating the instruments and what is this and then when I was a bit more a teenager, like, oh, that I start to understand a bit how they record and you know, how everything was made. I was very interested in trying to, "Oh wow. How did they do that? Why this singer, I can hear four voices of him. How do they do that?" You know? Well, I had all these questions, you know, which now we obviously we know we multitrack now we record layers and layers. But as a little kid or young person, you say how a person can sing twice or three times at the same time. So yeah.

Becky Boyland: Absolutely. that's absolutely true. And it's so fun just to think about when you start doing that type of, deeper listening and I know that for me being a mastering engineer as well, I hear in frequencies sometimes and I'm very focused on there's too much of this or not enough of that.

Thankfully it doesn't destroy music for me. I still enjoy it, but we do listen differently, especially when we're producers, that's for sure.

Alfredo Paz: I used to have a friend, still a friend of mine. He's a good producer. He always say, you need to wear like your musician hat and your producer hat. You need to know when to switch them because otherwise you cannot finish any project because you're thinking of one thing or the other.

Somehow you need to learn how to listen as the audience. If I play a song to my mom, if my mom will criticize it, there is an issue. If she just enjoy it, you know it's done.

Becky Boyland: That's true. And I think about that for myself too is there something in there that still bothers me? Then I know I need to go back in and fix it and move on and still allow for it to not be perfect because nothing will ever be perfect. But there are, times when you can let it go and other times when every time you listen, you just know you have to go back and fix that.

So you went, into music professionally early, is that right?

Alfredo Paz: Yes, I started young, when I was a teenager, playing with my friends, trying to make bands, making a lot of noise at the beginning. But, you know, eventually you start getting better and getting a bit more serious. So, and then I started learning, I started taking more seriously my music lessons. I was very fortunate. I had a very good, teacher. My first teachers, were good, but I didn't connect until one day I met this, heavy metal guitarist. Even though this is not my style of music, you know, I was so impressed how well he could play and how fast he could play. Maybe I can learn to play one day like him, you know? and we connected. He was very young. I think maybe that helps as well. He wasn't much older than me, so that inspired me to carry on playing. I made music until I, was 24, 25 years old, and then I gave up. I completely quit making music until four or five years ago when I pick it up again.

Becky Boyland: How much of your life was that? Was that music making something that you felt like you were doing professionally or able to do professionally to an extent? Or were you working alongside that?

Alfredo Paz: Towards the end before I quit, we were doing very well. I was playing with two bands and honestly we were doing really well. Sonically we were very happy, you know, it was sounding very good. We were recording, we were going to the studios, we were being playing in radio stations. You know, we were, doing medium sized gigs, like thousand people It was getting better and better, but at the same time, it was far too much hard work, you know? Eventually, you know, we all kind of burn out and at the same time was studying university, you know, as you cannot just dedicate only for music unless you're really, really lucky.

Becky Boyland: Yeah.

Alfredo Paz: And that sort of, slow me down and, you know, it also makes you self-doubt, when you're trying and trying and you hit wall and another wall and a second wall and eventually, yeah. Yes, I gave up sadly. but I kept always listening to music.

If I watch a film, I just think about the sound. I sometimes don't pay attention to the stories. For me listening to music or it's always been like my savior, I will say. You know, it's like, it relax me, you know, it is my own space.

Becky Boyland: Yeah. That's awesome. So what did that season of your life look like in between, when you left music and then took that break until just the last few years?

Alfredo Paz: I became a sound engineer. When I moved to England, I studied sound engineering, for about two years. I left music as a musician, but I never left the industry 'cause I became a sound engineer. So I start, you know, after I graduated I was very lucky. I work in a few recording studios here in London.

Which I learned a lot. but sadly this is during the early two thousands when all the studios started going down.

Becky Boyland: Hmm. Yeah.

Alfredo Paz: people started more recording at home. So, you know, in that terms it slowed down a lot. So that's how I ended up doing live sound. That's when I became a live sound engineer. 'Cause obviously it's, it's more concerts or more gigs. But at the same time, I study film, before coming to England. I always work with film so that's why I am a sound designer. I always work with film, in the sound department. So as an editor, as a sound designer, mixer.

So I was having some jobs in the studio, doing post-production, but mainly live sound. And that's another reason why it was so hard to pick up music again, because I started traveling a lot. I started doing gig after gig. So you don't have time, you know, to practice every day and sit down at the piano and when you're at home you're tired, so, to answer your question, I went away from music, but not as a musician, I always work with musicians and put microphones on them and make them sound as good as I can.

Becky Boyland: I have the suspicion that, the catalyst was what was going on in the world about four or five years ago. And you found yourself, saying, Hmm, when are all the shows gonna happen again? So that was your transition time.

Alfredo Paz: That was my transition time. Exactly. During the pandemic, at the beginning obviously we didn't know what, what was happening. people were hoping would be only a few months, three months, four months, but it was nearly two years. Even when things started opening, you know, none of the organizer were organizing any sort of events, 'cause it, it was too risky, no?

So yeah, that's when I decided to, well I didn't have this piano. I used to have a smaller one and I started, making music again. I, I met a few producers and I started getting in touch with my musician friends again. I started practicing and learning more and preparing myself a lot.

I've been doing a lot of studying, I've been being mentored by a lot of producers. I've been doing the songwriting course, where we met, you know? I'm very happy I've done it. It's hard work, having a job, having a family, and trying to make as a, as an artist or as a producer.

But I'm super happy because it's so great. Like yesterday, somebody wrote me on YouTube, "I love your song, but can you translate it to Portuguese because I don't speak English" and I'm curious, I said, "Well, I don't speak Portuguese," so I went to ChatGPT today, translate it. And I send it to her.

I say, uh, "I dunno if it's a good translation or not, but, you know, at least it will give you a rough idea what we say." And then she'll reply to me, "Thank you so much. I already translated. And, and if you don't mind, I will upload a translation to YouTube for you," and say, "Of course." So that makes you so happy, you know, that somebody connects so well with a with a song or something you make and it's, very pleasant.

Becky Boyland: Oh, absolutely. And it's, why the art is so important and so exciting, especially to come back to music or make music, at least the songwriting part, something new and extra than what it might have been, because it does make those connections.

With your music, I can tell that, you know, even though there are a lot of things you've wanted to learn over the last few years, that ear from live sound engineering is so important because the first interactions I've had with music were live sound in the production space.

And it translates very well into the studio because you have the big picture, you have the overall, and it's easier to get that sonic palette as opposed to being just so, buried in one track, which is very easy to do when we're trying to make that one track perfect.

Alfredo Paz: And when I'm in the studio, I always think why I cannot mix like I mix live? Because in live you only got an hour, two or three hours. You need to be very fast and know what you're doing. In the studio, obviously, we got all the toys, all the gadgets, and you say, ah, what if I try this? What if I try that? And then you get hooked and start moving very slowly. I'm trying to get better at that, but I still, like playing with the toys and going back and forwards. So, yeah. But it's true, you know, I know that, that the best producers, they, they don't think too much, they just do it, no? And they got so much confidence that they just, they know when to commit, move on. Don't look back.

Becky Boyland: Yeah. And it's both in the production phase and especially when you get into the mix phase, resisting the urge to go back and start producing when you should be mixing. Sometimes that's where I find it most helpful to change my hat and put on the mixing hat

Then think like I did when I was doing live sound. Zeroing everything out and then pulling up the faders and mixing it as if it were in the room. I think sometimes when we're working mostly with virtual faders, that tends to be one of those barriers to thinking like we're doing it live.

I've tried to put my head back in that space 'cause it really makes such a difference and makes me trust my ears more rather than, just looking at,what I'm seeing on the screen and meters and all of these other things, which are important and useful tools. But at the end of the day, it's gotta sound good.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, it is all about listening,

Becky Boyland: Yes.

Alfredo Paz: Technology, you know, drive you the other way. I know a lot of mixers, sometimes switch off the screens or put videos just not to look at, you know, those meters and those, you know, EQ curve because obviously your eyes will fool your brain.

Becky Boyland: Yeah.

I know when I've gotten too far down the rabbit hole and have been looking too much at one certain thing, and then I just have to walk away and come back with fresh ears and just pay attention to what it actually sounds like.

And so that's probably a good segue into tell me about Elephant Ears and where this has come from and, why that is your artist name.

Alfredo Paz: That's a strange one. But, basically I was looking, it was a name for my company originally, which I was never happy. And I was looking and all the names I like, obviously they were taken and one day I was in this, building, waiting for something. In the reception they had this beautiful African elephant, sculpture. With really big ears, super mega size. I thought, that's it. Elephant Ears, So I came back home and straight to Google to see if there are any audio production company or any, anybody you know, with that name.

So that's where I went with the name. When I decided to start releasing under my name, I started thinking, what do I do again? Thinking the process of the artist's name. Which name should I use? Should I use my name? And eventually I thought everybody likes the Elephant Ears.

They always say super cool. They like the logo, they like this. So I just decided to keep it. It's just Elephant Ears now.

Becky Boyland: That's really fun.

Alfredo Paz: So it's the artist and my production company both.

Becky Boyland: That's a really cool logo.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, I was lucky. But again, somebody always told me, you need to tell people what you're doing. The logo originally didn't have the headphones. I mentioned to a friend once, we were walking and say, oh, I got this logo with an elephant. And she say, ah, it would be nice if you put some headphones without even seeing the logo.

I thought, great. I called the illustrator like, could you put some headphones on the elephant? Let's try. And that's how I ended up with my logo.

Becky Boyland: And that's really cool. So, talk about, the music that you have put out this year. I know that you collaborate with other artists and that's part of your workflow, both producing for other artists and producing your own music with those other artists as features. Share a little bit about the music that you've been doing that way.

Alfredo Paz: Yes.

I collaborate with artists because I'm not a singer, so that's the main reason I, collaborate with artists, but then I obviously, I love working with other musicians. I,really like using real musicians as much as I can. I found a really pleasant to record real musicians. Obviously I play a lot in the studio.

I edit a lot. I program a lot, but I like mixing both of them, especially drums. I really like real drums.I think it, it give a space to the music. Yeah. So that's what I've been doing. Usually with the writer, I've been collaborating. A lot of artists have been collaborating with co-write and then they sing it, but other ones have been reading with other people. And then we get a singer, like the last song that I send you, "Black Ink," I wrote it with somebody else and then we, actually, we spent three years looking for a singer for that song, and we tried like three or four singers, and finally we found the one that hit the notes literally.

so yes, that's, that's what I've been doing. I like writing, producing, making my own music, but I like collaborating with artists. I find it more fun. Before I quit, apart from my bands, I used to do a lot of music on my own, just on my keyboard. A bit electronic, new age type of, you know, between cinematic new age and it's good, but it's not the same of being with a band or somebody next to you. You know, I think that the work when you're with more people is, it gets better.

Becky Boyland: Yeah, there's so much that's far greater than just a couple of people coming together in a room. The ideas generated in collaboration are surprisingly far beyond what we thought they could be. And then I, I love that you like, working with real instruments I mean, I love all the toys too, but it really does set things apart. it's very different because that's becoming less common, especially in a broader pop setting. There's just that extra little special sauce by having those authentic instruments.

Alfredo Paz: It does, and it costs more money, and more work, 'cause obviously it's, it's much easier to mix some VST drums than mix a real drum kit. But I don't know, and especially strings. I love when they play real. Big orchestras, symphonic orchestra, even string quartet, the string quartets, I love them. It's so intimate and so Pazsionate.

Becky Boyland: Yeah, it's amazing what can be accomplished digitally. And then all of a sudden we hear the real thing and, oh, wow, that's not programmed, that's not midi. And, it's huge.

Alfredo Paz: There are some people who can make it unbelievably good. When you program things, you need to be mindful. For example, will a string player be able to play this? Or let's say a trumpet solo you need to leave a space for the trumpet to breathe. You know all these, nuances. I know a lot of people who program very well. That's what they think when they're programming.

Becky Boyland: So your style of music, what are your inspirations when you are producing and composing and co-writing?

Alfredo Paz: I go with my heart. It's all about the emotions. No, to be honest, I'm, when I composed or try to write a song, actually I do it almost every night before going to bed, I close my eyes and just hit whatever hands, whatever the hands landed on the keyboard and try to play a bit blinded. Usually you come out with really nice, Ooh, that was nice.

And then you just, okay, where my fingers are, what chord this is, and that's usually what I do. 'Cause I always go with my emotion. I think people need to feel the music. That's why maybe I like the real instruments as well. They give you that 3D dimension, that very soft, very loud, you know, little textures that's hard to replicate on, virtual instruments.

But yes, it's all about the emotion, the Pazsion. And the style? Well, it depends. If I'm happy, if I'm sad, but usually, I tend to go towards the, more cinematic, dark, a bit more textures. I like textures. That's my sound design brain. I like adding sounds that replicate, I dunno, a thunder or something.

I might not put a thunder on the song, but we'll spend hours looking for a synth or something that say, ah, for me this is a thunder. Or, you know, or the wind, you know, in my last song, the, the one I send you, there's a, I put a bit of wind, but it's not wind, it's just a synth. I did it with pink noise and, some oscillation, but I think it's cool, you know, it's more than just the music.

That's why, you know, music like, Pink Floyd or that type of music that there, there are so many layers. Obviously, you got the music and then you got the orchestra, and then you got the rock band, and then you got all the electronic, you know, these layers and layers and layers of goodness.

Becky Boyland: I love that. And putting in those other sounds that evoke something, whether they're literally that sound or. intended to have that kind of feeling. I never realized how cinematic I tend to go in my productions too. And I think it's because of years of playing in,bands and orchestras.

I can see, especially as you were listening to classical music, how that can translate and influence how you are producing music, whatever the genre. I totally get it. I love doing that kind of thing too. Sometimes I am surprised at how much the songs I listened to and the styles I listened to growing up have all these many years later started to find their way in.

I did a very acoustic song, and as I was finishing it up and I knew I needed something different in the last chorus, all I could hear in my head was the eighties synth that was used for "Jump."

Alfredo Paz: Mm-hmm.

Becky Boyland: and, And, uh, I'm like, yeah, that's what this needs. I know it's an acoustic, very open acoustic guitar song, but it just has to have this as that final synth sound.

And so it's like the eighties just dropped in the middle of it, but it's still subtle enough that it doesn't scream that. I can't help but smile every time I listen back to it. I'm like, yeah, that's that little bit of eighties that had to pop up.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, even though I don't use synthesizer that much, I quite like, to put one or two in my music somewhere. I like the blend. I think they're quite versatile instruments. 'Cause you can modify, you can do anything with them.

Becky Boyland: Mm-hmm.

Alfredo Paz: And they give a lot of weight to the song as well.

Sometimes double up the bassline with synthesizer or things like that. It sort of give a weight to the song and you can sometimes don't even hear it. but once you mute it, you say, oh, what's wrong with my song? You know, it's kind of left the body. I do a lot with the bass, put very sub low frequencies, just hitting the root notes and it works, I guess.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. They do it so much in electronic music. They play so much with the kick drums and the bass that sometimes you don't even notice it, but it's there. It,it's like building a pillar, no? You put in a lot of weight. So it's solid on the bottom.

Becky Boyland: Yeah, you may not hear it, but you're gonna miss it when it's gone. It's just that little tiny, subtle thing. I do that a lot of times with a little teeny tiny, subtle pad, whether it's throughout the whole song or just for a certain section of it.

I know it's at the right level when you can almost hear it.

Alfredo Paz: Mm-hmm.

Becky Boyland: And it just makes so much of a difference. And, yeah, synths just kind of, it's like they just sort of creep into almost any production. Even all the acoustic stuff, there's always some kind of synth doing something very, very subtle in the background.

We'll be back with more after the break.

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So, what are some of the challenges you've found now as you've come back, and added all of these aspects to your musical journey?

Alfredo Paz: Time. Finding the time to make more music. to practice, to write music, to finish the songs, to promote the songs. it's a lot of work, you know, for one person. But, it was very rewarding, as I told you before. I'm so happy, you know, tomorrow I'm meeting with another co-writer friend of mine. We've been working this song for about a year, because at the same time, when can you do it? When... We finally got it. So tomorrow we're gonna decide what to do in the production side. Yeah, but time, time is something, you know, if I could make the day longer, I will be super happy. I need about another 10 hours a day. So, so I can work, look after my family and then spend 10 hours making a song. 'cause then you will move fast. I work about, in my music about 3, 3, 4 days a week. Two, three hours every night. eventually I need to go to bed because I need to work in the morning. And I got my projects, my clients.

I do travel a lot. Time is my difficulty. but the rest is going very well. I'm very happy. I've been learning a lot and it's,, I'm very confident, I'm feeling really confident. I'm very positive as well. What about the music and all the progress I have made, especially the last year. up to last year I was preparing and last year I decided to go out.

That's when we met about a year ago. And that's when I decided to start releasing the music.

Becky Boyland: It is so exciting and it, is obviously the biggest challenge for so many people and that's what's so

beautiful about being able to still go ahead and do this, and that speaks to the incredible value of what it is to be an artist and to live into that because we just can't help ourselves. It's so important to be able to do that. And it also is why I think for anyone who's considering pursuing being an independent artist, we do have to realize that there will be so many things that you do have to juggle to make this happen. Sometimes finding people to collaborate just so that you don't have to do all the things and to find resources and the challenge of promoting yourself and being on social media—which so many of us have to do because that is just a key channel for being found at this point—and building community, can be challenging and still have all your creativity.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, it's really challenging, but, determination, hard work—if you want to do it, nothing comes free in life.

Becky Boyland: Yes. that's a wonderful point because I think when we start to dream about living into our dreams, we just think it's gonna be super fun. And it's not gonna be hard because it's a thing we've been wanting to do all of our lives. But the reality is it still comes with work and sometimes it comes with work you don't wanna do.

And that may feel like that's unfair. But the reality is there are always going to be tasks and elements of it that are a business if we're going to be serious about it. And so those are going to encomPazs things that maybe you're not great at or maybe are just not as enjoyable, but it's also opportunities to bring other people in to help out where you may struggle more or just not have the interest to do those things and need the energy, especially with limited schedules, to be able to do your creative work.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, it's difficult sometimes, even though I'm a mixing engineer, that's, that's what I do for a living, recording and mixing. Sometimes, I should just make the song and give it to somebody to mix, just to save me, you know, those extra days of work so I can produce more and then I can dedicate more to social media or I should give the social media to somebody else.

That why I very low profile in social media. Whatever I do, I prefer to do it myself. I think something very personal. I'm very scared if you give it to somebody to do it. Will it be authentic? Will people, you know, so something like the mixing is more objective but yeah, it's time, time, time, time, time.

Becky Boyland: That is a really great point too because social media is our own voice. It's so important to still have a great level of control. There are ways to outsource, video editing or, things that are more standard promotional that this new song's coming out or something along those lines.

But when it comes to obviously being able to put your voice out there, if it's a direct to camera, quick video in the moment or at an event showing what you're up to, those types of things are hard to outsource without taking the heart and soul out of your story.

And it's very difficult to build a community around something that isn't authentically showing you. I think the best case scenario is something that we can bring partners into to help do elements that don't require being you, if that makes sense.

Alfredo Paz: It's your face. Nobody can else show it, no?

Becky Boyland: But for the person who is trying to decide, is this for me? Do I wanna do the hard work and jump into music as my second act? What would you say to that person?

Alfredo Paz: Do it,don't doubt yourself. Just go and do it because I've done it and I'm very happy, you know. you know, he is been a rollercoaster, you know, he's a lot of hard work. I'm always tired. I never sleep enough. But it's so nice, interacting with a few fans and they send you all this really, the other day somebody sent me an email, "As I listened to your song, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

And I was like, wow. Can't believe it. because obviously you write the song, you say, I think this is good, and you put a lot of effort and you make, but you dunno how people will react to it, no? One day when I was recording one of the songs, somebody was here in the studio and as soon as she listened to the song, she started crying.

I say, oh wow. You know, this is good. it's not that I'm a bad person, I like people to cry, but, you know, that means you know, it touch, you know.

Becky Boyland: I like, I like to make

Alfredo Paz: Whatever I did is touching the heart is doing the connection from a human to another human. And I guess as creative people, that's what we want.

Becky Boyland: Absolutely. Although a lot of times I'm the one that's crying and, being looked at like, are you okay? Especially if I'm singing a song and, real strings come in, then I'm a puddle. There's something about the instrumentation and I think it's because I, listen to it in a littledifferent way than a lot of music consumers.

That one swell of something can just melt me. I have to be very careful when I'm performing live because it's impossible to sing and cry. So I have to do these mental gymnastics to get myself back on track. And remember, I don't have time to cry right now. I have to sing.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah. I never thought about it. It's hard to cry and sing, no?

Becky Boyland: So we're encouraging you all to, you know, feel your music, We don't want you to cry just for the fun of it. We want you to cry because you've been moved and it's a

Alfredo Paz: Oh, that's, you know, sadly I don't make dance music, but that's the idea of music. If you listen to a song that want you to stand up and go to a dance floor, that's another emotion. It doesn't matter what emotion it is. The main thing is that it connects with people.

Becky Boyland: Absolutely.

Alfredo Paz: Sadly, my songs always make you cry or...

But going back to your question, yes, just do it. Anyone who wants to do, 'cause the older I get, the more you learn. we won't be here forever, no? eventually we will go. So, and you, we dunno when, so it is better to do it now rather than later.

Becky Boyland: Absolutely. That's so great. don't waste the time when you know that it's been sitting there and probably weighing on your heart and mind, for a long time because it still keeps hanging around, still keeps coming back and you're not going to advance further if you don't take that step now,

of course, remember it's still gonna be work. There will still be work involved it's worth it.

Alfredo Paz: It won't be easy. but what's the worst that can happen? Nothing. We always think, oh, will people like this? Will they hate it? That's a very bad, negative thought. I'm always, anytime somebody listen to a song next to me, I'm so tense. But if they don't like it, that's it. Somebody will love it. Somebody will hate it. it's all so subjective.

Becky Boyland: It might just not be for them. It might just be for somebody else.

Alfredo Paz: Somebody else. And if it's not good enough learn from the mistake. And improve. Because that's part of, you know?

Becky Boyland: Right. For someone who wants to be an artist, they take that leap of faith, but they're not recognizing that maybe they still have a ways to go. just because your first attempt. isn't quite up to the level it needs to be, you can guarantee it will never get better if you stop. if you keep learning, keep growing, and seek out others that can help you to grow and maybe help shorten that journey, then it is going to be so much more productive and beneficial. But your first attempt is not necessarily going to be your best. It's unlikely to be your best.

Alfredo Paz: That's a good point.

You just mentioned collaboration. That's something that really made me make a big jump this time.

Because I partner up with people that are really good as well. You know, I'm not the best lyricist, for example. Like I come with nice idea, nice stories, but the, the actual final, you know, commas and dots, I'm not that person.

But if, if you partner up with somebody who love doing that and, you know, spend days think, oh, that rhyme is not doing it, you know, and then eventually until they find it, then you end up with a better product.

And I'm just focus, I focus more in the, into the actual production or the chords or whatever the, you know, the arrangement.

It makes you work better and faster and more enjoyable, you know, 'cause you write things that everyone is proud of

Becky Boyland: Yeah, that's for sure. I, I know that there are times when, especially if I've been into back to back collaborations, it's amazing what I learned from other people's processes too that I, I wouldn't come up with on my own. they probably were influenced by somebody else too. So you get all these other, benefits of what this person has tried and, what that person's workflow is

It's, an instantaneous level up for me because then I can go back to my own studio and even if I'm writing by myself, I can take those approaches and apply that. And it's, it's so fun because it just increases the toys that I have to play with and the tools in the toolbox. I'm not gonna pick that up in a vacuum.

It's so great to be able to see what other people are up to and, it's incredibly maturing and helpful so yeah, I highly recommend that as well.

Alfredo Paz: And the other thing I wanted to, the other thing is learn a lot about the industry, about the business side. that's where most people fail, including myself at the beginning. Now I'm trying to understand better the promotion side, everything, you know. Obviously things are much easier these days somehow because social media, you have more reach of people without the need of having a lot of money. But you still have need to have the contacts and be friendly with everyone and networking and so yeah, understand of the business. 'cause I think that's very, very important as well to try to make it.

And I'm learning every day I'm trying to learn something about promotion, Google ads, anything related that will help me make my music be heard by more people.

Becky Boyland: Yes. That's so important and, a big challenge too because it's not that we think we're going into business, but we are. If you want to make any impact with your music, you have to recognize that, whether it's your full-time gig or elevating your hobby, it is a business and it does require, a lot of what that entails. And that can be very challenging because, everything is different across all types of jurisdictions and worldwide. And then also the fundamental parts of being in business that you talked about of networking and building contacts and making sure that you have all of those things in place.

That's, tremendously important advice. That's really great.

So tell us where people can find you, hear your music, follow you, and keep up with what you are doing.

Alfredo Paz: The easiest way will be by website, I will say elephantears.co.uk. If you go there, you will see all the links to Spotify, YouTube, Instagram or you can go to my social media. Most of them are elephant_ears_audio. Somebody sadly took the Elephant Ears to add the audio. So I've been thinking to change it to official. but I dunno. But yes, you can go elephant_ears_audio and you can find all my music. Bandcamp if people used to listening to this. Bandcamp is a great thing. Not too many people know about it, but you can buy still buying the songs there, or merchandise. At the moment I'm not making merchandise. The only thing I'm selling Bandcamp is my songs and I've got a couple of, piano scores of my songs that you can get... yeah, I thought, you know, it's nice to make them, so if people want to play the piano part of the songs, the piano score is there for $1, $2 or something. You can get two or three songs on a piano score. So yes, Bandcamp is something I would really encourage people to do if they can.

Becky Boyland: Yeah, and that's a wonderful point for anyone who wants to support an independent artist, you can stream music for a fraction of a pennyto the artist, or you can actually buy the song on Bandcamp, which goes all the way to the artist. So please consider that, but also you can stream andput it into your playlist and share because that also is exposure. So all of these things are very important

Alfredo Paz: You need everything you need the streams. You need hopefully somebody who buy the, your products so you can make more money so you can create more music. But everything is social media, is having the networking. I don't play live.

I'm not intending to play live, at least for the, for a few years. I can never say never, but every little help, you know, to get more attraction.

Becky Boyland: Yes, absolutely.

Alfredo Paz: I, I mainly focus in Instagram, YouTube, that's where we can be more creative. I haven't had time to make more videos for YouTube, but I got so many ideas I want to start doing like short form videos, more creative with sound.

Becky Boyland: Well, I hope you do, 'cause that sounds like that would be really exciting and, I know that we would all enjoy that.

Alfredo Paz: Yeah, I want to combine my film knowledge my sound design knowledge and my music knowledge and try to do something cool. I really want to start partnering with a visual artist, just to do something interesting.

Becky Boyland: That sounds really cool. Well, this has been so delightful. Thank you so much for being on the podcast I've really enjoyed diving into, how we listen to music, especially as producers. this has just been really fun. thank you so much.

Alfredo Paz: Thank you Becky. Thank you for having me. this is fantastic what you're doing. It's so great, helping us, letting people, learn more and encouraging people to come back to their Pazsion because it doesn't need to be just music. It could be anything. You know, we, we leave everything behind in life sometime because life get in the way. So it's great what you're doing and I'm sure it will be very positive for a lot of people. So, thank you.

Becky Boyland: Thanks so much.

What a fascinating conversation with Alfredo. His story really underscores some major themes we see again and again on Second Verse.

Your journey doesn't have an expiration date.

The skills you gather along the way will find their place even if it takes time.

And creative work thrives in community, collaboration, and authenticity.

Alfredo's return to music after years of working in sound engineering and film reminds us that artistry isn't a straight line, and his emphasis on balancing real life, family, work, and creativity is something so many of us can relate to.

So your action step this week: think about one creative project or one dream you've set aside because life got busy.

Ask yourself, What's one small step I could take this week to reawaken it? Whether it's scheduling 15 minutes to write, reaching out to a collaborator, or simply picking up an instrument again, your Second Verse might start smaller than you think.

And if you're building your own creative presence and need help telling your story clearly and confidently, that's exactly what I help artists do through Attitude Creativity.

And if this episode encouraged you, I would love it if you'd subscribe to Second Verse, leave a review, and share it with a fellow dreamer. Your support helps indie stories like Alfredo's reach even more hearts.

And now enjoy "Black Ink" by Elephant Ears feat. Dom Durner and Giulio Romano Malaisi written by Alfredo Paz and Johanna Lundström.