Just Start: How David Rosen Built a Life in Music, Podcasting, and “The Pup Pups”

TEASER CLIP: DAVID ROSEN

DAVID ROSEN: Every project I've ever worked on only started because I started messing around on something and then it was like, oh, maybe this could be a, a rap song. And next thing you know, I'm making rap music. Or maybe this could be a song that sounds like I'm Bob Dylan and I'm singing about my dog's eyes being big and bright. Uh, that turned into The Pup Pups. So, you know, you just never know where something's gonna go unless you start.

BECKY'S WELCOME AND INTRODUCTION

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome back to Second Verse, where we talk with indie artists who found a new chapter in music, whether it's their second act or their seventh.

I'm your host, Becky Boyland, singer songwriter and StoryBrand brand messaging expert.

I am out of the studio traveling right now, but I will be joined in the studio by David Rosen, a film composer, instrumental artist, podcaster and the mastermind behind comedy rock project, The Pup Pups. From growing up in his family's record store, to composing for dozens of films, producing over 600 podcast episodes and crafting songs sung by his dog (yes, really), David's story is as eclectic as it is inspiring. We'll talk about how every creative detour can feed the next, how to build long-term relationships with collaborators and why the work that brings you joy first is what will sustain you. Whether you're dreaming about scoring films, or just trying to find your next musical spark, this conversation is packed with ideas, encouragement, and just the right amount of fun and ridiculousness. So let's dive in.

WELCOMING DAVID AND EARLY MUSICAL INFLUENCES

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome, David. Thank you so much for being on Second Verse today.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. It's gonna be fun.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love that your story is really an example of how there can be a second act, a third act, a fourth act, all kinds of other successive musical ventures and creative ventures. And there doesn't have to be a pause necessarily, and you have quite a story. But let's start at the beginning like I do with most folks.

When did music first come into your life, and how did you fall in love with music?

DAVID ROSEN: So I was always surrounded by music, since I was little because my dad owns a record store called Wax Tracks Records. It was in, well it was originally in New York and then it was in the Poconos in Pennsylvania where I grew up. And then we moved it all out here to Las Vegas. That was much later.

So I was always there in the store surrounded by vinyl. Any music that I could possibly want to listen to was right there. I didn't have to go to a store, buy it or anything like that. And that was of course, pre streaming or any of that stuff. So music was just always around 24/7 for me. So I guess I was just always into it at some level.

DISCOVERING A PASSION FOR MUSIC

DAVID ROSEN: The kind of switch flipped on though, when the Wayne's World soundtrack came out, like that's kind of when I, I was at that age. I mean, I think I was probably like 12 or 13 at that time and you know, that was the age where I was like, music was just this thing that was all around too.

It was like, oh, okay, I love music. I'm into this and music is probably gonna be a big part of my life from here on out.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's incredible. I can't imagine growing up in a record store and that had to be not only so incredible to realize that you were surrounded by that, but it sounds like it still took you a little while to figure out that this is a pretty amazing life to be surrounded by all of this music everywhere.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, I mean, you know how it is, like with any industry, even music, if it's your parents thing, you're just kind of like, oh, I'm gonna go play video games or like, you know, whatever the other thing is that you're gonna like get into. But everyone comes back to music eventually. I feel like,

BECKY BOYLAND: I think so too, although rumor has it that some people don't wanna be musicians, and I don't understand how that can be a thing.

DAVID ROSEN: I think they're just saying that.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, they don't want anybody to know yet, but they're gonna come out with their record sooner or later.

DAVID ROSEN: Sure. Sure. Yeah.

EARLY MUSICAL VENTURES

BECKY BOYLAND: So then you did come around to it and it became your passion, but actually you really started as a teen, so talk about those early days.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, I, I had some friends that like we weren't really interested in starting a band in the traditional sense of each of us learns an instrument and let's get together in a garage and make music and then go do some shows. Like we all were really inspired by like the industrial artists of the nineties, like the Ministry and the Nine Inch Snails and like all that kind of stuff.

And the idea that you could make music essentially yourself with a computer, with a synthesizer, with, all those kinds of things. So we all just were doing our own thing, but kind of encouraging each other and, so we were all like kind of developing in tandem, I guess. And, uh, I still have some friends from that time that, we still send each other, you know, our projects and we still support each other in that way. But yeah, it started off trying to do that basically to be one of those kinds of electronic musicians, but in the back of my mind, like I knew that I love film music. Like film music was super, super influential to me and it was something that I was always really excited about. And so, even though I wasn't even like remotely in a place that I could possibly make music for film, I was like, well, maybe that's something I could eventually make my way towards. But I also had no idea that I would eventually make albums of instrumental music that would blend all these different kinds of, uh, influences and genres together. And I, you know. Obviously didn't know I was gonna do film scores. I didn't know I was gonna do this whole side project of songs about my pets that we'll get into at some point here.

I didn't know I'd get into podcasting. Not that that was a thing yet, back then, but like all these different things, you know, you just kind of, you get into the general world of entertainment and media and art and kind of just see which things kind of speak to you and which. Paths you end up going towards. And uh, yeah, it just was kind of like all over the place right from the get go. I was just trying to do as much stuff as I could within music, because each thing, even if it was a dead end or even if it was just for fun or whatever, it was like each thing fed the other things. It's like you're developing skills by working on this kind of music that kind of help with this kind of music and, and like everything just feeds into each other if you are going in with an open mind and just trying different things constantly.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, for sure. And I'm curious what kinds of DAWs or what was available to you when you were getting started?

DAVID ROSEN: So I started with Cakewalk Pro Audio 4. Uh, that was, uh, so this would've been in 97? End of 97, beginning of 98. I was Cakewalk Pro Audio 4. That's what I started with. I don't remember what my MIDI keyboard was, but, uh, I had some kind of MIDI keyboard. I had a guitar that I couldn't play at all.

Um, and, uh, and yeah, and it was just starting with that, and I stayed with Cakewalk for a long, long time. I, I switched about five or six years ago, I switched over to, uh, Presonus Studio One. And that's what I'm using to this day. But I always loved Cakewalk and you know, it's what I started with.

I became so comfortable with it. I, I had a few jobs over the years in studios and they'd always be trying to force you to learn Pro Tools and like, I'd learned the basics as little as I could possibly do. 'Cause I'm like, but I, I'm really good with this. Why do I need to learn another, you know, another software but, yeah, eventually it became time to switch though. But yeah, no, it was really cool using, uh, Cakewalk and you had like lots of really great little packed in, VSTs, they were called like DXis at the time, I think something other

BECKY BOYLAND: I think so. Yeah.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, and, and then I, you know, would slowly start adding on more and more to the collection, some of the Native Instruments stuff and all the things that everybody knows at this point.

But yeah, just kind of amassing that collection of millions of sounds and little virtual instruments to play with and to just figure things out with constantly. And Cakewalk was a really fun software and I, I'm glad that it's still around. Like I know they were like almost gonna go outta business at one point. Well, they kind of did, they got bought and then they became a free thing and now they actually are like another full fledged DAW again and like, I, I couldn't stand that kind of uncertainties. That's why I jumped ship at the time. But, um, you know, Studio One's awesome though, so I'm glad I'm with Studio One nowadays.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, it's, it's quite amazing the progression of how everything has changed and what DAWs used to be. And I mean, I remember starting with Reason when it didn't actually record, and so they created a companion called Record.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: And then eventually had to bundle it all in there. And of course it didn't use external VSTs, so it was very niche, very isolated from everything else.

But it was pretty cool and I liked it for a long time. And the funny thing was one of the last times that I played with it now as a full fledged DAW that's, well used and well loved, it actually sounds better. People can fight me on this, but it actually sounds better. I had a plugin that I was very familiar with and I dropped it into Reason and I could not believe how much better it sounded, but it was just too much for me to go and switch back to that. But when people say that DAWs don't sound different, they really do sound different.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, it's hard to like quantify exactly what that difference is, but it, there's also gonna be a different kind of inspiration when you're like playing with them and you're like just kind of finding your way around. They kind of lead you in different directions and you're gonna do something different in one than you are in the other.

Even though it's basically just something to record and edit with. It's just you're going to be a different musician depending on what you're using.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's really insightful and that's totally true. It, it is an instrument. We play our daws if we do it right. And I think that that's, I think that's a great way to look at it. And I think it's why we do get so attached to not just a workflow obviously, that we get accustomed to, but sometimes just changing to another platform doesn't feel right.

DAVID ROSEN: Right. No, absolutely. And then sometimes, like in the case of me, when I jumped ship to Studio One, as much as I was like, I was so gung-ho about like, I'm a Cakewalk guy, I'm never gonna not be a Cakewalk guy, I jumped to Studio One and I swear my music got so much better within like six months. And I was like, maybe I should have been looking around and just seeing what's out there for a while. I shouldn't have just been so stuck on just one thing, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: That's pretty cool. It is an impressive platform, that's for sure. I'm an Ableton Live girl, but there are some things that I do like about, about several other DAWs that I miss, but they finally, keep adding those little things that make me say, okay, yep. I'm gonna stick with what I know and what I love, but.

There's a lot of really great stuff out there, and I think that that's a, uh, a good illustration for anybody who wants to get started that just pick one. Just pick one, roll with it, learn it as best you can so that you can make all this really great music. And they're all going to get you to the right end point if you just keep going and, and then if they don't, then you know you'll have a good knowledge base to jump ship to something else.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah. You shift when you have to, but in the meantime, just you gotta pick something or else you're just not doing anything.

BECKY BOYLAND: Absolutely.

TRANSITION TO FILM SCORING

BECKY BOYLAND: So tell us about your cinematic music and, yeah, just dive into that.

But I love scoring films. Right now I'm doing a, uh, a buddy cop movie, which is something a little bit outside of my, uh, my comfort zone because I normally do a lot of. Thrillers and dramas and like a lot of dark stuff. And so this is me getting kind of funky and having a good time with it, which is, uh, it's been fun. It's been a little bit of a challenge, but it's been a lot of fun. And I've got another film lined up right now that's kind of like a B horror kind of, uh, trashy werewolf kind of thing that's coming pretty soon and it's gonna be a lot of fun to really go crazy with, but yeah, I mean, film score is just such a cool medium because it's like, it could go in so many different directions depending on what the film calls for. And you get to really just try interesting things and like I said, when I first got into making music, I was never interested in like starting a band or anything like that.

Like the idea of, you know, it's great everybody who likes collaborating with musicians do it because it's awesome. But I, I'm just, just not really a, a band guy. I'm not a collaborate with other musicians guy. And I do love though collaborating with filmmakers. I love the idea of them kind of giving me a, a rough idea of what they want. And, you know, they might not know how to speak music, but they can speak vibes or whatever of what they're going for. And then me saying, you know, that sounds cool. How about this? And then we kind of come to our middle ground of what we're looking for and everything kind of falls into place and it's a really fun collaboration for me.

Collaborating with a filmmaker coming from two different like areas. And it all just kind of comes together into something that's really cool.

BECKY BOYLAND: That sounds amazing. And was it a direct pathway? How did you end up moving into film scoring?

DAVID ROSEN: Right. Yeah, so I started off with those like initial tracks that I was just making, trying to be an electronic industrial guy. Uh, and not even coming close, but one thing kinda led to another and, you know, everywhere I went like, yeah, I'm a musician even though I'm not really like putting anything out there or anything like that, I'm just playing around. You know, one thing leads to another. You meet the one person, you meet the next person, you meet the next person. I end up getting a gig scoring a friend of a friend's short film, even though I wasn't really prepared to do it yet. And I was just like, well, I'm gonna try. And it came out pretty cool, you know?

And it's just that one gig that kind of leads you to, well, now I wanna do this again. So any chance I get to talk to another person that is in film, whether they're a director, whether they're an actor that's working on a project, and they're like, oh yeah, I know that they are looking for music.

You know, whatever it is, it's, it's a chance to kind of like push yourself and, um. Yeah, it, it is definitely not a straight line though, because, as far as my career, I mean, I was working, I was producing rappers for a while. I was in a comedy rap group, which we don't need to talk about that 'cause that's a whole other lifetime ago.

Um, I was, I was developing my instrumental music that I would start for my first album. But along that path I was meeting collaborators that would really kind of push me to try new things with music. And all of that would lead to me being like, good enough really to try to push myself into film score work.

And once, you know, like I said, one gig came, it kind of helped because it was like, I, it was like a confidence boost I guess, in that I could reach out to someone and say, Hey, you know, I know you're making this movie. Uh, are you looking for a composer? Or if I saw a classified saying that they're looking for a composer, like actually taking that step and writing them.

And, um, there was a lot of gigs that just came from just hanging around online and finding whatever I could find. And then a lot that came from just being around and just meeting people and all that kind of stuff. It really just kind of comes from everywhere.

BECKY BOYLAND: I think what's so powerful about that is not only that it has a lot to do with who you know, and not in a sense of having to reach the upper echelons, but of just being a cool person that can connect with other cool people and follow this path, and also that journey of finding things that you tried them and then discovered, I really like this and this can be something that I can continue to do long term and that should be really inspiring to anybody who's trying to figure out how do I, not only make it in this business, but how do I find what I really like as opposed to what everybody tells me I should like, or what I think that this looks like?

Because there are so many different avenues to music.

DAVID ROSEN: Absolutely. Yeah. And like I was saying earlier, one thing definitely, even if it feels like very different from another thing, they feed each other really well. Even when I was producing rap artist here in Las Vegas, like that was, that was me being out there on the networking side of things, because I would be at their shows and I would be meeting people and I would be talking to people.

Or it would be me learning how to master my own music because I want it to sound good once they finished a song, you know? And that's something I might not have learned if I was just simply composing a piece and then just sending it off or whatever. And so I'm learning all these new skills by doing this one thing that ends up helping with the other thing.

And then once I started on my albums, it's like learning how to complete a musical idea is, you know, each of these tracks, these instrumental songs that they don't have lyrics, but they do feel like finished pieces of music. And so the idea of being able to finish something is something that's crucial for film scoring too, because you need to know, like, you know, this feels right, this feels like it's where it needs to be. You're not gonna keep going and building it up and making it overpower the film. But it's also not too early, not too unfinished at that point. So it's like everything kind of feeds into the understanding of what you want out of the music for all these different kinds of projects.

BECKY BOYLAND: And I have to imagine that being eclectic, just by virtue of that experience is super helpful when it does come to scoring not only different types of films, but different genres and even if there is something that veers within, within the context of a particular film or project and that gives you that ability to come in from different angles and, and just try new things.

Especially since you are, I'm assuming, getting something that has temporary tracks or, or maybe nothing at all.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, it just depends on the project. Sometimes they send it with temp tracks and sometimes not. I prefer not just so I can just kind of go in there and just go exactly what I'm thinking without getting something in my head. But I mean, if they already are working with something, that's fine. You know, I work with that too. But, definitely, once you get in there, you want to be able to kind of just think on your toes and try some stuff and yeah, sometimes you're like, oh, I did that one thing that one time, or I, or I used that one software that let me, you know, do this cool effect or something like that. And I think that something like that would fit here.

And I would've never known that that was even an option or even a thing that I could like look for, I'd be, I dunno, Googling it or something if I hadn't already messed with it for this other project over here. So yeah, again, everything just kind of feeds in.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's awesome. So you probably use more of the plugins than a lot of us have sitting on our hard drives.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, there, there, I'm as guilty as anyone though of, you know, buying, buying, buying every Black Friday. And then, uh, you know, I have way too much. But, um, but yeah, I, I use a pretty wide range of stuff. I, I, you know, use a lot of the Native Instruments stuff. I use a lot of Omnisphere in a lot of my stuff, uh, you know, a lot of the, the usual suspects, probably some smaller things people aren't as into, but, um, yeah, it's, it's lots and lots of different VSTs and the instruments, the plugins, the different effects, and all those kinds of things. And just trying to get somewhere with it and trying to figure out what works for whatever project it is.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love that so much.

THE PUP PUPS: A UNIQUE MUSICAL PROJECT

BECKY BOYLAND: So then you have this very interesting project with your pets.

DAVID ROSEN: Yes. Yeah, The Pup Pups is my Comedy Rock group with my dog Harvey, my 17 and a half year old dog Harvey, and our cats. And, uh, it's something that has been like a passion project of mine. I started it over 15 years ago when he was just a puppy. It, it took a long time because quite frankly, I wasn't good enough at the guitar to get the ideas in my head down.

And also I was busy. That was like timeline of exactly when I was breaking into scoring films and doing all the other stuff and music that I've been doing. So to dedicate all my time to making silly songs about my pets was, you know, a little crazy.

It's so stupid, but yeah, it's so much fun though because obviously we already are talking about film scoring, how it's like, you know, you gotta support the film, that's number one. So that's what I'm doing and I do release some of my film scores as soundtrack albums.

So you know, that's what they are. My David Rosen albums are, I kind of, as jolly and goofy of a guy as I am, my David Rosen albums are very like dark and kind of melancholy and you know, that's just kind of the vibe of music that I love. And so I'm not going to make a song on a David Rosen album that sounds all of a sudden, like some goofy rock song.

That's just not gonna happen. I don't have an opportunity to do that. So with The Pup Pups, I have a song that sounds like Huey Lewis & the News all of a sudden. And then I like have a song that sounds like, uh, I don't know, like Genesis and the one that sounds like The Dead Kennedys, like it's just all over the place.

Me getting to try new things and it's so much fun. I just got a whole new guitar for it and, uh, I'm like, I, I gotta just jam and try new things and, for anyone who's interested in The Pup Pups, basically the songs are all about just the silly fun, like eccentricities of pets and just them, you know, begging for snacks or sniffing butts or playing with tennis balls, whatever, whatever pets do.

You know, all the crazy stuff. And some of the songs are sung by my dog Harvey. He has a voice and so he sings in his voice. And he also barks, of course, 'cause he is a dog. And then some of the songs are me and just a variety of voices. Just whatever the song calls for.

I might be a, a blues guy on one song. I might be a classic rock guy in another song. You know, just whatever it needs to be. There's a lot of Tom Petty ish songs throughout the albums. , and then, uh, one of my cat sings, the other ones just kind of meow on songs, but one of my cats does sing. But, uh, yeah, it, it's totally ridiculous.

And, uh, the fourth album is about to come out and honestly, I'm in the middle of scoring this feature right now, and I've got this other feature lined up and I've got this new David Rosen album that's like 80% done, which will be out at the end of the year. But all I can think about right now is getting back more Pup Pups.

It's like all I wanna do, you know.

BECKY BOYLAND: You gotta, you gotta follow the muse, you know?

DAVID ROSEN: That's right. That's right. And Harvey's 17 and a half. So I mean, you know, he is, uh, we don't know how long he is gonna be here and like, will The Pup Pups continue after he is gone? You know, probably. But at the same time it's gonna be, it's gonna be tough, 'cause he is the lead singer of the band.

And so, you know, how many bands continue on once the lead singer goes, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's a tough thing, but you know, there's so many ideas to get into, and of course the cats, they, I could do a whole album just about them, so,

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh yeah, I would wanna hear that for sure. I had a 19-year-old cat. She, uh, she recently, I had to say goodbye to her, but, um, she was my studio cat. And she loved to actually sit under the, by the bass pedal of the, of the drum kit, which I thought was a very interesting place for her to hang out. But she, she used to enjoy that when she was a little bit younger.

But my question is, now, does Harvey, is he work for hire or does he get, you know, splits.

DAVID ROSEN: Right, right. That is the question. Um, luckily because he's so old, like he's just sleeping most of the time, so I could kind of sneak it out without like getting any kind of contract signed with him. Like he just doesn't realize it. But, uh, yeah, if anybody else wants Harvey on their album though, they're gonna definitely have to like, go through his lawyer and, um, you know, we'll get some, like some real good contracts going on that for sure. Yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: Well, he gets room and board, so he is well, well supplied for this project.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah. And all, all of his medicines he's on and his vet bills, which, they're way more than any of my studio bills. I'll tell you that much.

BECKY BOYLAND: They do, they really do start to mount, that's for sure.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, yeah.

SPONSOR: ATTITUDE CREATIVITY

BECKY BOYLAND: We'll be back with more after this break.

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SPONSOR: SINGING / STRAW

BECKY BOYLAND:  Second Verse is brought to you by Singing / Straw.

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MUSIC VIDEOS AND COLLABORATIONS

BECKY BOYLAND: What other projects do you have going on as well as the films and The Pup Pups that we've enjoyed talking about?

DAVID ROSEN: Over the last 10 years or so with these albums, I've been also, you know, I, I've talked about the collaboration with filmmakers to score their films. But a really cool way that I've been like kind of getting out there with my music has been kind of the other way around.

I've been collaborating with filmmakers to create music videos for my instrumental tracks from the albums and since I don't play out, like I'm not gonna go do concerts of this stuff or anything like that, it's been a really great way to get me out there and to get people to hear my music because, you know, without doing shows, it's really hard to just like, scream into the void of social media and expect for people to check it out that way. So I have been making these music videos and they've gotten into film festivals, won some awards at festivals and things like that, screenings at movie theaters that I, you know, try whenever they're screening places if I can make it to them, I try to. But yeah, I've had, uh, at least one or two music videos from each of the albums that I've put out over these last 10 years or so. And I'm currently working with different filmmakers on four music videos for the next album.

UPCOMING ALBUM AND PROJECTS

DAVID ROSEN: Um, my next album it's called, And Other Unexplained Phenomena.

Um, it's kind of frustrating to have all these like half finished ideas that I love and I, I, I really want to finish, but like, at the same time I wanna start new things. And so to be at this like stopping point, it's gonna be really, really cool. But yeah, when this album comes out though, I've got a stop motion animated video that I'm working with a, a

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh!

DAVID ROSEN: Uh, artist on, which is just gonna be super, super cool. We're also, uh, partnering with a local restaurant where it's gonna be like recreating part of the restaurant in it and it's gonna be super, super cool. And then this other one that's gonna be like a film, like with an actress and, uh, some really cool effects and stuff and choreography and, so that's coming out. And then I already have two other ones that are completed and just waiting to go with two other filmmakers. So this has just been a super cool way for me to collaborate with filmmakers, like I said, in the other direction. And then of course, I've worked with most of these people on their films as well.

And so it's kind of that two way street and it allows for these tracks which don't have lyrics, but you know, in my mind they do kind of have meaning, you know, I obviously title them all and they kind of have these ideas to them, but at the same time, they're instrumental. So it's kind of like to be able to, uh, convey meaning for these in a visual way, really kind of helps elevate them into something a little bit more than just straight up instrumental music. And, so yeah, it, it's really exciting to be able to put these videos together and to be able to work with these filmmakers in this way, and some of the videos I've made myself too. I'm, I'm not like a great video editor or visual artist or anything like that in that way, but I've been able to make at least like a half dozen of them myself that are, you know, using various like, stock footage and effects and things like that, just playing around.

And I use, uh, Vegas Pro is, is my, my video editing software and just messing around essentially, but like with intention and finding my way towards a video and coming up with something that I feel like kind of speaks to the track and again, like tells a story in a way. I've been really proud of those as well, and I'm sure I'll do more of those in the future, but with these four that are on the way, I mean, I've got a, a nice little healthy, uh, slate on the way of these music videos, but they've been a really exciting thing for me. And I mean, anyone who grew up when, you know, we all grew up, music videos are just an awesome art form and something I would love to do more with, honestly. As many as I've done, like over, I think 20, maybe even 25 at this point. Uh, I, you know, I'd definitely love to do more and do bigger ideas. Like I said, the stop motion one, that's gonna be really, really cool. I've already had one stop motion one, it's one of my favorites. But, you know, I, I've always loved stop motion and, um, just trying these really interesting ways of conveying a story is always just so much fun and you can kind of do anything with music video. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a straight up idea or anything like that. But you can, you can try things and you can really be creative and experimental. And I think that's part of why I love it as well.

BECKY BOYLAND: That is brilliant to collaborate as well and, the idea, especially now for a lot of independent artists of doing music videos, when they do have lyrics is, oh, I've gotta rush something out because if I don't, then it's not going to get found because of the algorithm and all of these external worries rather than, here's a really great way to make art with other artists and that is super exciting. And obviously stop motion is the best, right? That sounds amazing.

DAVID ROSEN: Stop motion's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool. Um, but yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right though. Like, you know, of course when you usually think of music videos, it's a marketing tool for the album, essentially, but it's also a piece of art. And I'm certainly not going to get a crew and a bunch of actors together and shoot a film myself like I'm not a filmmaker, you know?

But, if I could collaborate with somebody and I have this idea and they can kind of bring that to life, like we're making something, and it's just super exciting to see it come to life.

BECKY BOYLAND: That is just such a cool thing. And I think that for someone who doesn't necessarily have existing relationships with people, it's a good way to look for others that like them are trying to make it, trying to grow their brand or grow their experience and just maybe try somebody out and see how it, how it might work out and that could just be something that continues to grow and, and then maybe goes the other direction as that filmmaker learns, just like you learned with trying different techniques and working with different types of music, it's the same thing for other artists and other mediums, and so that's a really powerful way to help others continue to advance and grow, and then broaden your reach into different areas so that you don't only just work with other musicians and other people who are doing the same thing that you're doing.

DAVID ROSEN: Absolutely. And those relationships, they can stay for a long time. There's people I'm working with now, that buddy cop movie I mentioned, I've worked with that guy on 10 films now, I think. Um, yeah, and I've seen him grow as he's grown as a director and the scale and the scope of the films that he's been making. And he's seen me grow and he's got other composers he works with as well. And whenever he calls me up and he is like, I think you're the right one for this one. It's like, Hey, let's go. You know? And so, uh, yeah, it, it's fun to make those like lasting relationships and have people that you can go back to, and of course they can recommend you and you can recommend them for things too.

It's like, it's all about building that relationship and those networks and all that.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. And sometimes when you're actually growing together, whether it's your different paths or converging paths, then it's amazing to look back and look at some of the people that we consider at the top of their field, and think about where they started and who were the contemporaries of some of the people that we just are, are mind boggled by. And, um, you wouldn't have Spielberg and Lucas, not remotely as well known, obviously, when they started collaborating. So you just don't know where it could go. And it could be an incredible partnership or collection of people who are regularly interacting and just making art.

And that's, I think that's pretty special.

DAVID ROSEN: Absolutely. Absolutely.

PODCASTING JOURNEY

BECKY BOYLAND: So share also about your podcast.

DAVID ROSEN: Sure. Yeah. Yeah, so Piecing It Together is the podcast that I host and I also produce another movie podcast called Awesome Movie Year. And I, I've worked on various other podcasts over the years as well. Uh, but those are my two ongoing ones at the moment. Piecing It Together is a podcast about movies and what movies might have inspired them. On each episode,

BECKY BOYLAND: Mm.

DAVID ROSEN: a guest and I pick a, a new release movie and talk about it through that lens. We will each come to the conversation with four or five, we call 'em puzzle pieces. That's, uh, my kind of branding. But puzzle pieces are other movies or sometimes TV shows or other kinds of media that we think were possibly an influence on the film that we're talking about.

And it's just a fun, unique way to get into a film. Anybody who's ever had a conversation that's like, oh, that movie is kind of this meets, this, meets this. You were just on an episode of Piecing It Together, basically, you know, and, uh, yeah, I've been doing it for eight years now. It's taken so much time away from my music, but I managed to balance it all and do it at the same time.

But, it's been a really fun show. And the last two years, almost three years now, I've been doing live episodes of piecing it together at movie theaters. Um, I've managed to, uh, get some, some great relationships with some independent theaters here in Las Vegas where I go in, we schedule in advance. We have a specific movie. Just this past week we did Sinners, the new Ryan Coogler film. And right after the movie plays, we just get up right there in front of the theater. I've got my microphone set up. I had a panel, in this case all three were filmmakers from here in Las Vegas.

And we did the whole show right there in front of the audience that was there for the movie. And yeah, it's been just a really fun way to like, get out there and meet people, introduce the show to new audiences and just really get that audience participation. Get the audience immediate feedback on the whole thing.

And it's been super fun, even though everybody always asks me before I started it, like, are you gonna start a music podcast one of these days? And it's like, I love music. I just don't think I would be right as a host of a music podcast. I do have an idea for that I might do one day. I don't know. We'll see. But, I always tell people when they are thinking about starting a podcast, like, make sure it's something you want to talk about every single week for like hours because otherwise you are just going to hate doing it, you know? And, uh, movies are something that I never wanna stop talking about.

I am always excited to watch and talk about movies. And so when I started thinking about podcasting, like it was the right. Move for me to get into movie podcasts and yeah, it's a, it's a really fun show to do and I've done over 600 episodes at this point. And, I think you're on Captivate too, aren't you?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yes.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, that's, I think that's where I found out about your show in that Captivate Group. But yeah, Captivate's a great hosting platform and I've been doing this show for so long that it just feels like this is just part of my life now. I'm a composer, like I'm a musician. That's what I do, but I'm also. All day, every day, a podcaster two. I mean, right before we got on this call, I was working on my notes for my next episode I'm recording on Friday. It never ends, but again, it's something that I actually really enjoy doing. And so, uh, even though my time between composing and podcasting has been spread so thin, I'm gonna keep doing it, you know.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, awesome. And there's always that need to have that other thing, sometimes, that other creative outlet, especially as the primary creative outlet, starts to take a priority. Then you need to find, oh, I need another new creative outlet. And so you can see how the through line, though, of course, because of, your composing and, scoring, that there would be these natural connections that still bring it all together and yet they still also have their lanes.

And that I think that's pretty fun. For me, what's been so exciting about this podcast and this idea is I'm just learning so many people's stories that leave my chin on the floor because they're so inspiring, so fascinating, so fun, and it's just such a great thing to be able to have these conversations. I'm just so glad.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, I bet. It's a great reminder that there's definitely never a straight path with any of this stuff. I'm sure if we talked to anyone from Mozart to Axl Rose, like, it's like literally nobody has a straight path in anything related to entertainment. And to kind of go back to what I was saying earlier where one thing feeds another, I literally in January ended up scoring a film from one of my guests on the podcast.

So it's like you just never know. Doing one thing ends up feeding into the other thing and the other thing feeds into this. And it's like everything just kind of works together in some way. You just might not see it at first.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, just gotta keep your eyes open and, see what's gonna come of it and also really enjoy the moment. I think that's a really, that's a really important point that you made about, you have to, you have to like talking about this stuff if you're going to make this a topic and make it something long term.

And I think that's also true with music, whether it's doing genres permanently or doing something in a season and maybe having albums or collections that are based on particular genres. And I think that's what's so brilliant too, about you having this outlet of The Pup Pups so that you can do this other type of genre and, and I actually have an electronic genre project that I have on the side as well that I kind of keep out of my acoustic, and I think it can be a really beneficial thing because you do then every once in a while just get in the middle of a production and then think I just wanna do this other thing. And once I scratch that itch, I can come back and be ready to work on the project that is maybe more pressing, but I have to get this idea, I have to give it its due, not just get it outta the way, I have to give it its due and it will then bring back dividends.

And I know for me, it just makes me then more excited to go back to the other thing. 'cause it puts a little space in, in there.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, everybody knows, like I've never had writer's block per se, but like everybody knows when you do have writer's block, you're supposed to take a break and go do something else. And so who says that something else can't just be singing about your pets, you know what I

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

DAVID ROSEN: mean?

Like it could be just whatever, whatever you want it to be. So.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's right, that's for sure. So where can people find out more about you? And we'll have all this in the show notes, of course, but give a little bit of a rundown of how people can support you and get in contact with you.

DAVID ROSEN: Absolutely. Well, bydavidrosen.com is my main website that has links to everything I do, all my albums, all my film scoring, and news about everything that's going on there. Piecingpod.com is for the podcast, Piecing It Together, and you can find all of my albums on Bandcamp. I've got two separate Bandcamps for The Pup Pups and for David Rosen and my YouTube channel is something I've been building up a lot lately.

Uh, it's got all my music videos, of course. I've been posting clips from my podcast and just all kinds of other stuff. There's also music videos for The Pup Pups, so you know, you get that too. The YouTube is musicbydavidrosen on YouTube. And, uh, yeah, I mean, those are kind of the main things right there.

I've also been building up a Substack, which I've been starting to do. My mailing lists... uh, everybody should work more on their mailing list, I feel like, including me, so...

BECKY BOYLAND: That's really, really true. Then for anyone who is saying, wow, this is quite an interesting journey.

ADVICE FOR INDEPENDENT ARTISTS

BECKY BOYLAND: I wonder if this is something I should try, what would be your advice for that independent artist in the making?

DAVID ROSEN: My advice to every independent artist in the making is always the same thing, and it's to just do stuff. Like you gotta just do things because if you don't do anything, you're just sitting around doing nothing and that's really what it comes down to. Every project I've ever worked on only started because I started messing around on something and then it was like, oh, maybe this could be a, a rap song. And next thing you know, I'm making rap music. Or maybe this could be a song that sounds like I'm Bob Dylan and I'm singing about my dog's eyes being big and bright. Uh, that turned into The Pup Pups. So, you know, you just never know where something's gonna go unless you like, start, you know, you gotta just start.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's for sure. It's been so wonderful talking with you and actually you have so many other things.

FINAL THOUGHTS AND CONNECTING WITH DAVID

BECKY BOYLAND: Is there anything that we missed that you really wanna talk about?

DAVID ROSEN: We kind of talked about the film scoring. We talked about my albums. We talked about The Pup Pups, which I'm just so excited about the new album that's coming out. It's called Another One Already, But You Just Had One, which is both in reference to Harvey barking at me for snacks and in reference to the fact that the last album just came out three months ago. So it's kind of a dual meaning there.

For me it's just always a matter of just continuing to do interesting projects and things that, things that make me happy to work on, and then to then go back and listen to after the fact.

If I can be happy during both of those, you know, that's double awesome. So I'm, I'm super down for that. But yeah, I think we did cover, uh, a lot of the stuff that I'm up to.

BECKY BOYLAND: And I think that should be so motivating for our listeners, because if you love this stuff, if you love what you're doing, you love the art that you're making, you love the music that you're creating, then whatever comes next will just be a reward on top of that.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, icing. That's it.

BECKY BOYLAND: You have to love it.

You have to love it, or you're gonna burn out and it's not going to be what you thought it was. And it's definitely not that everybody's going to be a celebrity. There are actually too many ways to do music. So just finding those exciting niches and how to be involved in a way that you can do it forever and absolutely love it is super exciting and, and very motivating.

DAVID ROSEN: Yeah, not like, I don't wanna end on a downer or anything like that, but we're in a very weird time right now with AI and everything and it's like, you kind of can't go into any of this stuff with the idea of quote unquote success is going to be, you know, monetary and, you know, the way that it comes in, you, you've gotta do it because it's something you really love doing. And then hopefully with a mix of talent, a little bit of luck, a little bit of good networking, a little bit of good communicating with people and all that, and like being like a great collaborator, all the rest of it comes after that, but you gotta really love doing it, 'cause otherwise there's a lot of roadblocks along the way. So you gotta really wanna make music or do whatever thing it is that you're doing in, in entertainment.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's for sure. And if you've listened this far, we know that you love making music and we wanna encourage you to continue to do that. So thank you so much, David. This has been a blast. I've really enjoyed talking to you and, hearing about all the different types of music you have going on, and I can't wait to share it with our audience.

DAVID ROSEN: Right on. Well thank you so much for having me, Becky.

THE CODA

BECKY BOYLAND: One of my favorite things about David's story is how freely he allows one creative pursuit to fuel another. Film scoring, albums, comedy rock songs about his pets. They're not distractions. They're building blocks. And like David said, you just gotta start. So here's your takeaway this week. If you're waiting for the "right" thing to pursue or the "perfect" idea to execute, don't. Start where you are.

Try things, make stuff. Everything you try teaches you something, and it all adds up to your next breakthrough. And from a branding perspective, this is a great reminder that you don't have to limit yourself to just one identity. If you're an artist with multiple projects or interests, think about how they complement your personal story. Clarity doesn't have to mean confinement.

If you love this conversation, be sure to follow the show, leave a review and share it with a creative friend who needs to hear it. And now, enjoy. David Rosen's exciting, instrumental track, "How to Start a Fire." And as always, keep chasing that Second Verse.

FEATURED SONG: "HOW TO START A FIRE" BY DAVID ROSEN