Achieving Music One String at a Time: Ryan Pryor, Dulcimer Guitar, and Inglewood Instruments

TEASER CLIP: RYAN PRYOR OF INGLEWOOD INSTRUMENTS

RYAN PRYOR: Before I designed the instrument, my thesis, was people don't buy these because they don't know they exist. And if they did know they exist, they wouldn't buy them very often because they don't know what to do with it. Most of the ones that existwent in the direction of something that was maybe more folk or looks a little bit like a Renaissance Faire type of instrument.

If we make something that is more familiar looking, what they would see themselves wanting to play, then they're gonna play it more. And that's how you win, right? Is like to get someone to adhere to the thing and start doing the thing, 'cause then they will feel the achievement of music that maybe they haven't done before.

BECKY'S INTRO

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome back to Second Verse, the podcast that celebrates indie artists and creative journeys that didn't end with Chapter 1. I'm your host, Becky Boyland, singer-songwriter, marketer, and like a lot of you, someone who's found herself picking up new instruments, new skills, and new dreams later in life.

Today's episode is a little different and I think you're going to love it. My guest is Ryan Pryor, Founder of Inglewood Instruments and creator of the Cumberland dulcimer guitar. He's not a traditional performer, but his story is a perfect second verse. After formally studying music in college, Ryan stepped away from that world entirely, working in TV, woodworking, and marketing, until an unexpected honeymoon purchase led him back into music... just in a completely different way.

Now seven years into his passion project, he's designing instruments, launching an educational platform, and helping others fulfill a lifelong dream of making music. This conversation is full of insight and inspiration, especially for anyone who's ever felt like they missed their window to get creative again.

We nerd out a bit about instrument design — fair warning. But beneath the gear talk is something deeper, a mission to make music more approachable, joyful, and empowering. So let's dive in.

WELCOMING RYAN

BECKY BOYLAND: Thanks, Ryan, for being on Second Verse. I'm so excited to have you today.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Get to dig into who knows what. All right. Bring it.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love what you're doing.

RYAN'S EARLY MUSICAL JOURNEY

BECKY BOYLAND: I love your story, and then I love getting deeper into the story, but I always start everybody with, when did you first fall in love with music, and what did that look like?

RYAN PRYOR: Oh, that's stretching way back there. I come from, a church background as many musicians seem to have done over the years. I think I have specific photos somewhere in my parents' catalog of me in a little choir gown at age three. So, you know, they started us young in the church that we were in.

By the time I graduated high school, I was in three individual choirs at the same time in a week, both in high school and in and with the church. But I fell into guitarwhen I was technically nine, really about to turn 10. And it was funny 'cause at the school I was at, they just had music as ancillary.

I think there were music classes, but as far as taking up an instrument, it wasn't really a structured program. And so they just had like options you could go explore. And for some reason, I could never tell you why at this point, flute was what I had in mind. I walked down the hall to where it was and it was, a teacher and two students sitting literally at the end of a brick hallway.

And they were like just trying to hack it out. I just looked at it and turned around and went the other way. I was like, this is not for me. Got a guitar and struggled through it for a few years, and took to it. The guitar was super interesting and challenging, and I couldn't even totally say why exactly.

Maybe because it was challenging, right? It was something tactile, real, had feedback, and I grew up in the age when there wasn't, you know, too many distractions. The other thing I kind of fell into along the way with it was, actual arrangement and composition side of things.

HIGH SCHOOL AND DISCOVERING MUSIC THEORY

RYAN PRYOR: And so in my junior year of high school, they offered a, true music theory, class the band director did. And so I was already in the jazz band at that point. And being a chordal instrument, like a guitar, I kind of had a pretty working knowledge of some of that stuff.

But then I found myself sitting there at 6:00 AM five days a week trying to deconstruct Bach fugues and figure out the chord progressions within that. It directly influenced how I wanted to do music, what I thought about music, and the fact that I wanted to pursue it in college.

'Cause I didn't know, going into my junior year, that you could pursue music or that it was a thing that I would do, I didn't have any idea. And so that really, benent me in the direction of like, Oh, I can go do composition for college? Then sure, let's do that. Forget all the career stuff that one could have from it. Let's go ahead and do the studying part. So that's kind of how I started off, I guess. And, how I ended up eventually where I am now, which maybe that's not how I ended up here. But, you know, this is a starting point.

BECKY BOYLAND: That very interesting project of trying to figure out chord structure around classical music. For me, I see that as a parallel to when I was a senior in high school. Trumpet was my first instrument. And so I was selected for All-State Band. Actually it was Area All-State Band, they were a week apart.

The entire repertoire was for trumpet in C and concert trumpet is in B flat. And so I had to transpose everything at sight and it was a three movement piece, so the entire 20 plus minutes of music was going to be transposed. So when I came back and was trying to get ready for the next festival, I had to stop transposing at sight.

But I never had any idea that that skill that I had to learn specifically for that one event was why I can transpose at sight and helped me to learn guitar myself and to use that as a worship leader my entire adult life. And it was not something that obviously would've been an ordinary thing to study.

So it sounds like you doing that gave you those skills to do something that's very different from what a lot of folks would be able to do. And I can see that as incredibly valuable.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, I think I fell into the nerd math, puzzle, complexity side of things really well. And to your point about the reading, one of the things my teacher in high school got me into was reading, you know, 'cause he had come from a conservatory. So, I think I legitimately got into college, here in Nashville based on the fact that I could read, I could sight read to an extent on guitar, which is extremely rare.

I was not very good with my ear. I'm still working on that as an adult here. I don't know that I would've gotten in the next year. The competition went up, but I could read, and that was definitely one of the things that seemed to be cited as like, oh, I guess we'll let him in for that reason, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: But then what's interesting is even though you did study that in college, that doesn't sound like that was the direction that you went right after college.

RYAN PRYOR: Right. Yeah.

COLLEGE YEARS AND AUDIO ENGINEERING

RYAN PRYOR: So I actually went into school, I got a degree in composition arranging, but then I had some emphases, I guess the technical, is that the music degree with a composition arranging and a recording technology. So my job through the week for most of the time I was in school was actually staffing the recording studio, which is not something I knew how to do when I got to college.

So I had to learn audio engineering. And then effectively, teach audio engineering. 'Cause you learn a lot when you have to walk into a recording studio on a session you've never been in before and answer, Why is this not working? you know, on the fly. By the time I graduated, even though I had quite a bit of breadth of skills, being a music major isn't necessarily a ticket to a job.

And I don't think that music schools necessarily do the best job of teaching you how to go get a job or what to do with it.

POST-COLLEGE CAREER PATH

RYAN PRYOR: I didn't have a plan when I graduated and I ended up immediately in a bar, cooking, short order cook food. And then from there, I didn't do music for years in terms of any sort of, I guess technically, I don't know if I do anymore now.

I went, to TV because my audio engineering skills taught me how signal flow works, the audio signal. I had a friend in TV stations here and he said, why don't you come? I'll get you a part-time job It was the same exact ideas, right? just video signal instead of audio signal going from A to B.

I did that for, about four years and then woodworking in a cabinet shop for about a year because they shut down the TV station. From there I got into marketing, which is where I still make my money today.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love when the stories do kind of go down that path. And I have had some similar strange connections. I worked in radio for a while and, it's interesting to see how those things come back around and still have an impact onwhat you're doing. And I think we'll get more deeply into that,

because even though you are doing marketing, what you're also building is something really special and interesting, particularly to me because I am a complete stringed instrument nerd and will hunt them down and fill my house with them. Talk about what you're doing now, and I know that we're gonna really get into this and it's gonna be very fun.

RYAN PRYOR: Oh yeah, sure. Well, what I'm doing now is probably best understood from where it started, which I'll pick up the thread from college. One of the things they say about college is don't go to school for the thing you love because you could end up killing it. And That was essentially what happened.

I left college, I didn't get work in the space just as much for me as other things, right. And, for like 10 years after college, I felt like if I was gonna play my guitar, I owed it something, or it expected something of me. I couldn't just pick it up in strum a chord. I felt like I had to run some kind of a scale or that the chords should be complicated or I had to achieve something.

DISCOVERING THE DULCIMER

It was actually that one right there. The sort of teardrop shape one. But I, I took it home. I didn't quite know what to do with it. There was no instruction or anything like that. I monkeyed around with it, but then I mostly left it sitting aside, until we went back four years later and I saw that they had, moved from a cart to a store. So I thought, oh, one could do this, like, as a thing to do. And at this point, I've been doing marketing for a long time. I did have a background in woodworking in high school and in, you know, pre-marketing. So I cataloged it as, Oh, you know, that's something that would be really interesting to do.

And then I kept picking the instrument up and I found that I didn't owe it anything anymore. It didn't expect anything from me and I didn't know what to give it because it didn't have the same rules that a guitar has. It has the same function in terms of what my hands knew how to do, but my brain had to go through the whole new puzzle process of where is B minor, how do I even find, like, what are the notes in B minor back to, you know, oh, it's B, D, F#, cool. I know where those are and this is, okay, there's B minor. now I know a chord on this instrument, but that's all I needed to do. it was scratching the itch of music that I. Wasn't really getting because the guitar and I had a weird relationship, Right. So fast forward a few more years from there, and I left the job, or a job left me maybe, I don't know.

It was a little unexpected and I thought, whatever, I'm gonna get into this now. And at the time, this is six years ago, I didn't know it was even a category of instrument. I just thought, this is the thing that they sold me. It's interesting, I didn't know the word dulcimer. I didn't know that there was such a thing as a dulcimer guitar.

I didn't know about the Seagull company. I didn't have any designs in my head or anything.

BUILDING AND INNOVATING DULCIMERS

RYAN PRYOR: Over the first few years, all I did was make YouTube videos and I got an agreement with Seagull that sell their instruments. And then over the last couple of years I decided, hey, I don't feel like what's out there in the world is what I would like.

I don't think that it is. quite the echelon that I'm looking for, right? And there's issues with these existing instruments that I'd like to correct.

THE CUMBERLAND MODEL AND ITS FEATURES

RYAN PRYOR: So I designed my own instruments, which is now known as the Cumberland. I believe when you found out about it, it was probably the Model 1, which is, uh, that one more or less up there.

That's one of the first three Model 1s that we had. And then as you know, about a year or so ago, we went through a redo on the Model 1 shape and design, and came up with what is now the Cumberland. Which you are, I believe, the first, we were gonna tell people, but you're the first person to actually have one just by happenstance that managed to show up today.

But the other thing that goes along with that, that I'veactually like more is the educational piece of it. Making all the YouTube videos and the download PDF type things and occasionally having a one-on-one lesson and things is just, I, I don't know. I think something about that is almost more rewarding than shipping an instrument out. It's like, don't get me wrong, I'm very excited you have that instrument, but I am very excited about what you will do with it and, teaching me something that I don't know that it can do because almost everybody I hand it to does something different than I would do.

And then being able to take those pieces and educate the world in some way, you know, 'cause it's like if we get to the end of the next 20 years and more people know how to do music and feel like they've hit a life goal, than they do today, then to me, that's the end of it, right? Like we've just achieved something, that I didn't really know I was gonna set out and do.

So I don't know. That's my story. That's where I am right now.

BECKY BOYLAND: It is so great. there are just so many parts of that story that are just wonderful. But even just going off the tail end of that, that's how I actually, well, I think a very well placed Facebook ad probably found me, but being able to connect with you and see this come to fruition, is very cool for me because I've been hunting probably half my life for an instrument that has the quality.

Because this is not a new category, but it's also a little known category as you talked about. a lot of what's out there is not that good. At least they don't sound that good. And I did take a sneak peek and we will unveil these in a moment, but I did take a sneak peek and I am duly impressed.

being able to have an instrument out there that someone can actually learn on and grow with and not have to migrate to something else and then learn from, you know, that's sort of the precursor because if you're going to be able to teach them to do something really great, they have to have something really great they can play on.

And so I think that's an excellent combination to just have all of those pieces in one place and know where to go.

RYAN PRYOR: As we go, I bet you're going to, step on a few extra little nerves here and there. One of the ones that I think you just hit that I've gone back to over and over again for people is that for me, they are delightful instruments. the dulcimer guitar is what we're talking about here, and it's a delightful instrument because, it's so easy to pick up, so easy to get to the joy of making music

But before I designed the instrument the Cumberland, my thesis, was people don't buy these because they don't know they exist. And if they did know they exist, they wouldn't buy them very often because they don't know what to do with it. most of the ones that exist, while fun,went in the direction of something that was maybe more folk or looks a little bit like a Renaissance Faire or a medieval type of instrument, or Persian type of instrument, which is fine, but to the mass public who doesn't know what they're looking at, that's an immediate, blocker, right?

So part of the goal was to say if we make something that is more familiar looking, that is what people would want to be playing with, what they would see themselves wanting to play, then they're gonna play it more. And that's how you win, right? Is like to get someone to adhere to the thing and start doing the thing, 'cause then they will feel the achievement of music that maybe they haven't done before. So anyway, that's one of my many hypotheses that I'm working on.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, and I think they don't know what to expect with the sound and if they are aware enough of a lap dulcimer and the heritage and where this comes from. The sound is just generally not comparable. And that's really unfortunate because, and I'm talking really about volume and tone, not that it's not possible.

And I think that you've demonstrated that it is possible to have, that beautiful, you know, it basically goes back to what does the name mean, dulcimer. It's this sweet sound. And that's where the instrument gets that name, and that's what it should sound like. And this one does.

RYAN PRYOR: Good. I'm glad. I was there when Nick strung up the first, what is now Cumberland model.

It was a moment where we thought, wow, this actually does come really close to the full body tone of a traditional mountain dulcimer. Honestly, it was a little surprising. It was like, I, I think he was surprised too 'cause of the expectation you have from an instrument that's small in size compared to such a, like a guitar or even a mountain dulcimer.

It hits a really nice resonant quality that, I mean, honestly, we were like surprised by.

SPONSOR: ATTITUDE CREATIVITY

BECKY BOYLAND: We'll be back with more after this break.

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DISCOVERING THE INGLEWOOD DULCIMER GUITAR

BECKY BOYLAND: I was really excited just following this journey. So for me,I was just at the tail end of traveling and exhausted after flying to Europe, scrolling through Facebook, trying not to fall asleep while I was waiting for my hotel room to get ready and saw this... exactly... and, and saw this ad.

And I'm like, that's what I've been looking for, for probably 20 years. I think I first fell in love with dulcimers, at least in concept, because I loved Rich Mullins and the hammered dulcimer, and when you start researching the hammered dulcimer, you will stumble upon the mountain dulcimer. And sofor 20 years, I've been following them around trying to decide should I buy this one? Should I buy that one? And then not buying a bunch of things and then buying a couple of,stick dulcimers in the category, but always had my eye out. And so when I saw this and just could tell right away, even by the body style and what the initial version was aiming for, I'm like, I think this is something I need to pay attention to.

So I just signed up to be on the list keeping track of what was going on. And then you announced that you had made some adjustments with the luthier and some really cool modifications and just playing a demo, I thought, yeah, this is definitely going in the right direction.

And so you had me the whole journey, so obviously I did sign up and I'm, I'm so excited to probably be the first one to have received mine, but definitely be the first one to put it on a podcast. And so,yeah, I am, very impressed and I think you should bring out one model,

RYAN PRYOR:

BECKY BOYLAND: and you can start talking through this.

RYAN PRYOR: I did prepare. Like, I feel, I feel like it's one of those moments in the movie. You're like, what could you mean? Well, I just happen to

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. If you wouldn't mind, if you could just go grab one.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, no, this is, um, I don't, I should number them. This is probably the fourth or fifth one that we made, that Nick made, I should say.

I can't really take any credit, but this is the deluxe edition, Cumberland River Dulcimer. the one I believe you purchased was the player's edition. Correct?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yes, and I'm looking at, I'm looking at the wonderful, letter and so mine is

number

RYAN PRYOR: I wrote you a letter.

BECKY BOYLAND: Says 35. Is that correct?

RYAN PRYOR: Sounds right. Yeah. So those were, the thing I realized late is that you were actually the, third or fourth person to purchase, but the bodies, when he was, making them, he just went through and grabbed the next body like lined it up and did all that. So number 35, actually, and actually take that back.

The first 10 aren't numbered. This is one of the first 10. So you, you know, they, they're off to the

BECKY BOYLAND: I'll call it 3.5.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. 3.5. and yours actually has the FR nomenclature too. So first run.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, nice.

RYAN PRYOR: First run. They won't all have that. They can't, they can't all be first

BECKY BOYLAND: No, they can't. And I have the t-shirt to prove which is also a favorite.

RYAN PRYOR: I don't know if that comes through on these,

BECKY BOYLAND: does.

RYAN PRYOR: Oh, does it? Good.

I haven't played this one in a while. I think it's a little out, but you should play yours.

BECKY BOYLAND: So this is mine. So this is the Player's edition, and I love the Purple Heart fretboard. I'm a big fan of that.

DISCUSSING INSTRUMENT DESIGN AND PLAYABILITY

BECKY BOYLAND: One of the things that I thought was, important in the adjustments you made was the way the neck is set in most stick dulcimers are flat and don't have the right tension, you know, the way that they pull on the strings and they're just awkward and difficult to play so they don't feel like guitars.

Whereas this is so different.

RYAN PRYOR: Ooh, that sounds big.

BECKY BOYLAND: I mean, the tone is just incredible.

RYAN PRYOR: I think gears sounds better than mine by an order of magnitude. Maybe

BECKY BOYLAND: It is also, it's still ringing and sustain on an instrument of this size is amazing. So.

RYAN PRYOR: So the one thing I will say about that purple heart that you've got, I think it's probably true of all the ones that went out and I'm pretty sure it's for yours, is that that particular, so what's interesting is, I don't have it here, but the ones that I made first that you saw in the videos, the purple heart was such a huge board that the one you have and the one that I have are all from the same tree, from the same board.

And yet the section that you got is even tighter grained than what I had. So it's gonna be more, long lasting and, you know, wear better and everything like that, but it's just, it is just prettier 'cause of that too, you know? And I like the cherry top anyway, sorry. I'll go on...

BECKY BOYLAND: No, no,I mean,I think we can ooh and aww over it for sure, becauseit's just a tremendous achievement and I can't wait to, record this in the studio. It's definitely gonna make its wayinto, it's not only ideal for the kind of music that I do, but anytime I get a new and unique, I mean, anytime I get a new guitar, it's gonna make its way into recordings.

But when I get something unique and different, when I discovered rubber bridge guitars, it's now on like everything. So this'll be, this'll be an excellent addition to what I'm doing, but I really am just so entirely impressed. I mean, the finish on it is fantastic. And, you know, going from a stick dulcimer that I, it was really the only one that was recordable for me and playable.

It's more because it could be plugged in, whereas this is more because it actually sonically sounds good. Butthat feel of it actually being like a guitar and not just being a stick with strings on it, because those are just so hard to play. they're hard to put in a position. This is only hard to play when I'm trying to elevate it up to be seen on the camera.

But when just sitting on the couch and just, just making music and having it be really fun to do and not uncomfortable.

RYAN PRYOR: I'm glad to hear that. I would agree that some of the instruments that exist already have their challenges for being able to play easily. Some of which I was not aware of until we got to this point in design. I went back and I was like, you know, the way this neck is structured is really hard to play.

Even the Model 1 was a much thicker neck because it was borrowing from the same design ideas as so many of the other ones. But it's a thicker, it's hard... I mean, like In some ways it's good 'cause you can grab a hold of it, but in other ways the ergonomics for your hand to actually be able to pull off anything is difficult.

BECKY BOYLAND: Okay, so for our listeners who don't totally speak "luthier," what Ryan's describing is what makes this instrument feel natural, expressive, and playable, instead of frustrating and kind of like a toy. Now, back to the conversation,

RYAN PRYOR: And I will just say the one thing I wanted to point out about the geometry you were showing there, this part here, um, you said the strings are high off the body I want to give Nick Stratton, who did the building on these, full props because what you're experiencing is the neck being offset, right, is because once the neck is offset, then the strings can get farther off the top and they can get more angle behind the bridge, which allows it to play in tune better. But you can now strum more fully like you would with the guitar. Whereas a lot of the other ones, when you have everything in a single plane and it's just the neck is set the same, most people may not know what on earth I'm prattling on about. But if the neck is set in the same plane as the top, then the strings are automatically closer to the top and you're gonna hit the top and make noises. And I don't think you're gonna know it right? Like some people will know it, but some people won't and they'll inherently not wanna do that 'cause they'll think they were the problem or the instrument is the problem, but not know there's something else.

You know what I mean? So it is like, trying to correct all these little things has been interesting and important I think.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, because as you're playing guitar and you have that room and then you switch to something like this, or maybe you've never, played guitar and this is, you're trying this as a first instrument, it's just gonna feel kind of constricting and uncomfortable. And so you're going to either stop or look for a different instrument and miss an opportunity, I think.

I would say, you know, Seagull I think has done a decent job in certain things. And I've played the Merlins before, but what I never understood that I love here is how short of a neck and that they never really made anything bigger. And so being able to actually have a full scale dulcimer, and because this was custom, to be able to get my six and a half fret and, have these other additions. And in fact, the, the other stick dulcimer that I have is chromatic. And I really wanted this to be dulcimer tuning because I wanted something, different between the two. I felt like this would just make me a little bit more of a purist when I'm trying to record with it in a good way.

But I love that you offer, all these other options. So now I'm like, okay, I wonder if I'm gonna buying another one later so I can have a chromatic.

RYAN PRYOR: I mean, it's possible. So the chromatic ones make my brain break a little bit, you know, and I haven't spent a lot of time with 'em, I only have one Cumberland. But I'm in Nashville and around here, I don't have to work too hard to find somebody who does music as a profession.

So in the due course of showing these off to different, professionals, what I learned pretty quick is that they liked it. But the session guys here and the producers need to be able to change keys a little bit more than, standard dulcimer will allow, 'cause the standard dulcimer's in one key, more or less, you can play it in two if it's got the flat seven fret.

So I had the chromatic one and I mean, I think that was part of why I made it. It was supposed to be a guitar and I just said, let's put a dulcimer bridge and strings on it and see if that goes better. And I actually just texted the one guy who's got it right now this morning. I hadn't heard from him in months.

I was like, Hey man, are you still using that? He is like, yeah, I'm using it all the time on recordings. I was like, oh, okay. I should have asked that sooner. I didn't know, you know? So Ithink I'm gonna make a few more of those and kind of refer to it as the Nashville version, which is silly maybe, but it's like, that seems to be who's resonating with it. I don't know. Anyway, I'm excited.

BECKY BOYLAND: I see it being definitely a huge studio benefit because I know that Ican retune this within a few semitones and not have too many problems,but yeah, I think there's something about even when you're using it chromatically, if you want it to have that dulcimer feel, you know that you're gonna be playing chord shapes that are more in line with

diatonic. And then yes, you do start to get a brain cramp trying to figure out, well, I have to skip this fret and skip that fret. It's cool to have that flexibility, for what you wanna do with it.

I mean, really that is one thing with the chromatic I think would make it more useful the fact that you could capo it and still have what you need. But then you're still doing the same thing of trying to figure out which frets am I skipping?

EXPLORING NEW HEADSPACES WITH CAPOS

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. And what, uh, first off, have you ever put a capo on a standard dulcimer, Pickin' Stick or anything like that?

BECKY BOYLAND: I have not, but I do know that you can get, capos for them.

RYAN PRYOR: You should. Well, absolutely. You should definitely get a specific capo if you want to do that on these, because the string tension and the ability to throw something out of tune with the wrong tension on the capo is pretty, is much more intense and, severe than people would usually realize.

I noticed it was the case here. The reason I say it is because you're not, you know, on a standard chromatic instrument like a guitar or mandolin or whatever, if you capo it, you're changing the entire tonal, center up a half step, full step, et cetera. but on this, you're not changing the tonal center in the same way.

you're not moving the whole thing. You're changing the, the,

they would call it a mode, right? Yeah, yeah. So, I encourage people who want a little bit new headspace to occupy to capo at the first and then the second and the third, and just see what happens. 'Cause all the shapes and patterns you're used to using unlike a guitar where they still work, they don't work anymore, and your brain will automatically go in a different direction because the tonal center has shifted.

And you'll be like, whoa, this is a little bit more this style of music, whatever that is for you. So anyway, the other thing, the other thing, oh, sorry. We're down a nerd rabbit hole at this point.

BECKY BOYLAND: I'm gonna say that's a hot take that I think that people should try. and to try it, they have to have an instrument that's like this. So I think that's actually awesome. So now I'm like, oh,I will be trying that because, I'm basic pop chord oriented and so I don't think, even when I'm doing major, minor and all that, I'm not thinking about modes at all.

I know what they are, but that's justyeah, it's just not how I think. But that's essentially what that would be. And that sounds like the most fun way to explore modes that I've never had any interest in doing before.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. I've watched so many videos and had discussions on modes and I still couldn't tell you how they work. This is such a good practical application. 'cause you're, I don't know, you're just changing the whole, dynamic of the thing.

THE UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS OF DIATONIC INSTRUMENTS

RYAN PRYOR: The reason it's so different is the fret spacing. I don't know if anybody who's watching wouldn't know that. So the, the fretting on these is in one key. This is a major scale if you go all the way up.

But once you shift that, if you do the capo there, you don't have the same major scale anymore. You still have all the same intervals, but you're chopping off that bottom part. If you did it on a chromatic one that has all the notes, you'd just be changing everything up, you know?

But, the other thing that kind of goes to what you're saying, which I think is what you're gonna find between the chromatic and this is it is in factthe missing frets that make it the characteristic sound that I think you're going for, which took a long time for me to realize, 'cause different people I showed these to would say, "Oh, I just skipped a bunch of frets and I can hear it, like, I can hear there's things that got missed along the way." 'Cause you don't think about when you're sliding, you're hitting every note. And so now when you slide, you don't hit every note, you still just hit the major scale as you go.

I had one guy actually suggest making a version had movable fret and I thought, thought, I don't think anybody's gonna buy that. But you know, it was helpful feedback. Um,

BECKY BOYLAND: As, as neat as that would be. I, that's, yeah, that's a very ambitious project but I think that's why these have initially, at least when I first started coming across, not the full Mountain Dulcimer, the Strum Stick, which is one of the early brands, it was almost targeted as the easy guitar you can't get wrong. To some extent, that's true, but it doesn't acknowledge that this can be, especially when it's done to this caliber, a professional instrument that's going to add lots of character and color to a performance.

ButI still just was always fascinated by that, and that's why I did wanna go diatonic for this one, because that's what I was going for.

I was going for a dulcimer in a guitar format. I think anybody who is like, what on earth is this kind of thing, in a way, it can be a very easy on ramp for playing guitar or diving deeply into this. But at the same time, any guitarists who are looking for something new and a different interesting challenge, this is one of those opportunities. And then you have, as we just touched a little bit on, the educational component. So what can people expect getting into the programs that you're offering?

RYAN PRYOR: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

INTRODUCTION TO INGLEWOOD PLAY EDUCATION COURSES

RYAN PRYOR: So, last month, we finally launched the Inglewood Play, education courses. So, one of the things that I have experienced and kind of intuited as I've chatted with people over the last six years is that a vast majority of people who are buying the existing types of instruments out there are, I think learning for the first time.

A lot of 'em are trying to accomplish the life goal of playing a musical instrument. And I,sort of expected that because the Mountain Dulcimer player I got connected with years ago had told me that he was like, most of the people who play mountain dulcimers are in their, retirement-ish years and they're picking something up for the first time.

The mountain dulcimer works well because of the way that you hold your hands, you know, you're not doing this kind of thing that's harder. A lot of people, who are doing it, are using it because of the ergonomics as much as it is the fact that it also is easy to learn. And I found over the years that at least the people who were talking to me, whether it was on YouTube comments or an email or something, seemed to be also in that same sort of, phase of life where they're like, you know, I've, I've done my office job, or the kids are gone, or whatever it is.

And, I need, to hit this life goal that I said I was gonna do, and now I don't know quite what to do, but I'm gonna try this thing.

BEGINNER COURSE DETAILS AND LEARNING PATH

RYAN PRYOR: I wanted to design the first thing that we put out, the first two things are actually the beginner course, the 101 course, which is everything from, What is this? What is a fret? How do you hold it? What's a pick? How do you use a pick? Do you use your fingers? How to hold your left hand. Which I think is something that peopledon't teach enough. And, all the way up to how to do a one finger bar chord so that you can play along with basic chord progressions.

And some well-known melodies like Happy Birthday because some of those are easier to pull off on the first string. So you get the melody aspect as well. 'Cause you can do a lot with just one finger on these. And, then I added in some jams and play along so that the people would be able to practice along with it and not, necessarily have to own a metronome or also be able to,

Get the sense of playing with someone else because I think music is meant to be experienced with other people. It's something that I didn't do enough of probably growing up 'cause I was squirrel away in my room doing, you know, scales But, I think a lot of people want to play music and one field play it with somebody else, or four somebody else.

And so offering that component of the courses was important to me because we have the beginner course and we have a full course that has more of like the old time bluegrass, style melodic runs and everything like that. So, trying to hit a different style of music, different audience maybe.

But we're starting on the hymns course now. Gonna keep adding to the ones we already have. And then I'm gonna start architecting the intermediate 201 kind of, level as well.

CHALLENGES AND BENEFITS OF LEARNING MUSIC ONLINE

RYAN PRYOR: So I'm pretty excited about it, 'cause it's the sort of thing that you can't do on YouTube.

You have to put something out on YouTube and hope people like it. Never know if they like it, never know if it was useful. Never know if you had a gap in there. Not be able to change it 'cause once you take the video down and replace it, it's gone. so now I can do all those things and make one video that only one person looks at because it was helpful and not care whether an algorithm liked it or not, you know?

That was long-winded. Sorry.

BECKY BOYLAND: Uh, not, not at all. Not at all. Because I think a lot of, folks who are actually, as you described them, just getting into this maybe for the first time, it's very difficult to go down the rabbit hole of YouTube anyway to try to find all the information that you want, if you wanna learn, an instrument that a lot of people play.

And this isn't an instrument that a lot of people play yet. And, um, and even if they wanted to, look at,Mountain Dulcimer videos, they may not recognize right away that they're inverted. These instruments are strung in an opposite direction because of how you are strumming and holding the instrument.

So while there might be some things to learn there, it's gonna be very confusing immediately, especially if you're a beginner. And so having something that is well thought out, completely comprehensive and taking them along for the journey, and then of course, as you have the opportunity to grow it, you'll be able to get, do that based off the feedback that you get from, from those who are participating.

And can become this dynamic community where they're getting so much more out of the process than just trying to hunt and find a couple of tutorials. So that's absolutely great information and I think really helpful.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah,I'm pretty excited about it. It just launched, so it's early, but the initial feedback I've gotten is, This is what I was looking for. This has already taught me more than I was able to do in the last two months. and yetthe feedback is also helpful to know what to make next. Because I had one lady email me the other day and say, "This is super helpful, but I don't know exactly what to do. I'd like you to make a schedule. So that I know if I'm gonna excel or even progress or whatever, that not just, it would be good if I learned this thing, but learn it well, practice it 15 minutes for three days, and then move on to the next thing." And then here's my choose your own adventure, what you would do next, which is a totally fair thing to ask for and very achievable, I think. when you're able to take a dulcimer, that the thing I love about it is it strips down the education requirements because you're suddenly functioning in one key with the ability to sound good with just one finger.

And so you don't have to work through all six strings like you would on a guitar, right? You sound good with just one finger and three strings. And soyou can focus on the practicing part and getting better part of it, and the first song that you wanna learn within the second week of owning it because your hands are figuring out what to do already. So I thought it was a great idea and it's only achievable. 'cause you've got the box already defined for you in terms of what you would want to start learning, versus piano you've got different people's philosophies on pedagogy and all that kind of stuff.

BECKY BOYLAND: I think it probably becomes a little bit clearer too that a lot of the students are likely looking for a similar type of thing, whereas with guitar or other instruments that do have so many different applications that if you're going to have somebody come to you as a student and they don't tell you anything else, and you were trying to guess, do they wanna learn electric? Do they wanna learn rhythm, do they wanna learn classical? You know? There's so many things and whereas later courses that they might take could diverge quite a bit more. But just getting started is, is going to be like, I just want this to be sort of a fun back porch or sofa sort of thing.

And, scope is really helpful. Andthe thing that is lacking very much, and we try to DIY it from YouTube because you can't figure out, oh, what do I watch next after I watch this one thing? There's no way to know, even if it's with the same person. They may be responding to interest and interest doesn't necessarily take you to mastery.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. and how do you know as the student even which thing to try next or which thing leads to the next, or like how to be interested in the next thing, you know, what is the thing in this song that I'm trying to learn that is hanging me up because I can't quite figure it out and now the video is over and it doesn't tell me. Who do I go to for that?

Yeah. I didn't have that as a resource when I was learning. so I don't quite know what it's like to try and use that as a resource now, to learn with. But I've tried it with fixing the dishwasher and YouTube is great for some of those things, but it's also quite a challenge because it's like, this isn't the dishwasher I own. I don't know if this is the problem or not, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: That's a great illustration obviously we didn't have YouTube for learning any of these things. And I remember when I first started to learn guitar, I found some beginner book somewhere and it was very much country focused with alternating bass notes and stuff like that.

And I don't think I got very far in that book before I thought this doesn't sound like anything I wanna do. And I'm not sure how I kind of turned the corner, but it was not helping me at all because it just was such a mismatch. And that was also just guessing from what was written on the page. I didn't have,a CD, I didn't have...

RYAN PRYOR: ok, yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: ...a URL, you know, this was way back in the day and I honestly don't even know where that book came from So, yeah, it was such a strange kind of foray trying to get into guitar. And I think it probably stopped there for a bit until I of found a different way. And then when I started playing, you couldn't get me to stop. I,put band-aids on my fingertips so that I could keep playing and, fell so in love with it.

And I did, like I did with brass instruments when I was younger, where I would master one and then go learn the others. And so with guitar, this is why I've sort of gone down this path of just bring me another stringed instrument. I wanna figure this one out too. And like I they're kind of everywhere, all around the house.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. That seems to be what people do. They either stick with one instrument and keep it as a fun hobby or they start careening off the cliff and end up with way too many. I like to refer to those folks as the noodler, the consummate noodler, the one who's always looking for the next interesting sound and trying to figure it out and wants to wrap their head around it andget the sense of the exploration, the fun of it.

Those are, an interesting category of person, that these fit with really well. Not just the beginner, but the person who's a seasoned player and is always looking for the next thing to add to the repertoire. Right.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love to have, very unique instruments whether it's a special guitar a one-off guitar or something like that. I have a harp ukulele and that one, that one does break my brain a little bit, but it's coming along.

think The fun thing about it is that it's the first time in a long, long time I've had to really think how I'm playing because it's just so different. And I think that there's obviously this familiarity this where I can just dive in and start playing. And also, I'm looking forward to the fun challenges of doing something that's a little bit different that isn't using the same fingerings and the same chord positions, obviously, because that's not the way this instrument is tuned. That's gonna be a really great challenge and I think would be something that might interest a lot of guitarists who do want to try something unique and original and have something very cool in their collection.

RYAN PRYOR: I mean, I'm not gonna object to those guys trying. Ladies, ladies, and guys trying. All the people here that I meet are like, oh man, can I put that in a record? You know? And so it's like I'm looking forward to hearing from the people who are, not professionals that are just looking to enjoy music.

The dulcimer will get you to the joy of making music faster, right? Like, that's what I find exciting about it.

BECKY BOYLAND: I think that's fair explanation.

FUTURE ASPIRATIONS AND NEW INSTRUMENT IDEAS

BECKY BOYLAND: Do you have other instruments that you're thinking about, building out this line into, or,other aspirations and ideas?

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. Great question. Well, the next thing in line is we're a little bit on the decision path here,whether to do a fully electric or a semi-solid body electric version, or to go for another acoustic version that maybe could get produced at a lower cost, because I would love for more people to be able to purchase them.

So that's kind of the next thing in line. I think the chromatic one is also an interesting one.I made these in three string guitar versions. That was another option people in the first run got to choose from. But I had a lot of people ask why it wasn't four strings, which is more of a tenor guitar or,baritone ukulele. They're tuned the same way. And then you're like skewing into ukulele land. So I don't know that I want to be in the ukulele market. But I think what I would love to see in the future, is that after people have learned the dulcimer guitar or when they're learning it, they'll start to see a path to something else, I don't need it to be an instrument that I own, and I don't want to go build guitars. That's been covered by enough people. But if we could create a runway for them to go do that, if that's something they want to do, whether that's through, specific education on the dulcimer or moving up to a four string guitar, 'cause again, you're keeping the learning box a little bit more, controlled. And if you've never played before and then you get a dulcimer guitar, you're keeping the requirements lower because you're getting your hands figuring the thing out without the complexity of all those chord shapes and all the frets.

So then you can take someone up to the next tier, whether it's a chromatic instrument or a four string, or all the way to a six string. You know, those are choose your own adventure options I would love to help people get into, but I do have other ideas and I don't want to say too much about 'em just yet.

I think they're a little ways off still.

BECKY BOYLAND: So we have to stay tuned.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, I mean, like the whole thing I'm after is helping people get to, making music and enjoying it sooner either in their life period or, sooner in the moment when they're exploring something new. I don't know that a harmonica is necessarily the thing or if there's a keyed instrument that would make sense.

I'd be curious actually to know your, your feedback on this. 'cause you said that you have the instrument that is electric, the, uh, dulcimer style instrument that's electric.

BLENDING ACOUSTIC AND ELECTRIC INSTRUMENTS

RYAN PRYOR: One of the things I'm curious to look into is on the electric side of things, that is its own massive well of possibilities.

Because once you introduce electricity, then you're introducing amplifiers. You're introducing the possibility of guitar pedals, right? That's this massive thing over the last 40 years or something like that. I mean, they weren't very prevalent when electric guitars first started out, but now they're the thing that many electric players go to.

And yet I think they've become over complicated, They're their own tool set and headspace to occupy. Getting into that is difficult. I don't really know my way around it as much. have you messed with guitar pedals much?

BECKY BOYLAND: I have, um, yeah, and when I, I started playing electric guitar more seriouslyover a decade or so ago, but I always considered myself mainly an acoustic player. And when I first got into electric,I didn't really account for how different of an instrument it really is. You don't approach it the same way.

The amplified dulcimer that I have, is really just an acoustic pickup, but I have a solid body ukulele that is, it's a, it's a Kala tenor. So it's very interesting because it really does need to be amplified, but it's not really, I mean, it's kind of electric, but it's nylon string, so you're really limited in what you can do with that because it's just not going to work the way that they might pitch it.

But it is an interesting instrument. It is another one of those fun weird ones that I happen to have in my collection. And, you know, it plays really nice, but it, it is, it's very interesting and strange and different. And I think probably the most unique combo of things where I am throwing heavier effects on an acoustic instrument is when I'm amplifying my rubber bridge guitar because it does have a humbucker. So then I'm throwing, vibrato and things that I probably wouldn't even use anymore because they're kind of out of fashion for a regular electric. But for that it just works, you know, I'm doing that, a little bit of delay, a little bit of crunch. So there's a through line to a heritage that's generally outside of my normal playing, but it's just such a fun sound that has made its way into folk music. And so I'm like, okay, I'm all in. I'll, I'll try the weird things on it and see what happens.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. Is it tuned different, is it tuned down from a regular guitar,

BECKY BOYLAND: This one is not. Yeah, this one is not because it's actually, um, it's Orangewood brand. And what's great about these is most rubber bridge guitars prior to that point were vintage guitars that were bought on the cheap and converted. Whereas this is a production model that they're making available, but they just put out a new model that upgraded a couple of things.

And so I'm thinking, well, maybe I need one more. But the reason why I want one more is because, I loved the show This Is and, the composer for This Is Us, he used a guitar, this like totally roached guitar he found in New England when he was on vacation. The strings were know, probably 20 years old and it just had a vibe, so he bought it and he's never, ever changed the strings on it. And so it basically sounds like a rubber bridge guitar at this point. I wanted to almost like email him and say, you know, you could do this in case one of those strings ever breaks 'cause it's going to, but he is using a, a unique alternate tuning.

I don't remember it off the top of my head, but I had to figure it out 'cause he didn't remember it either. But I figured it out and I wrote it down and I toyed with one of my guitars in that tuning and it was magic. And so I thought I I need to get another one of these so I can keep it in that tuning.

But it's fun to just try something that's just totally wacky and different than what I've been doing for all my adult

RYAN PRYOR: And it sounds like it is, and rightly would drive you in a new creative direction.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah,

RYAN PRYOR: which I think is sort of where my head occupies when it comes to a dulcimer for a guitar player who's never played one before or putting a capo on or the idea of the electric, right? Because I bet the first time you played an electric and had a distortion pedal in there, you were like, what is this?

Suddenly the power cord sounds so much more powerful and I just, wanna bend something and let it sit there and be like, this is not what happens on an acoustic, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. It makes you feel like an utter rockstar. Acoustics just can't have that kind of sustain because you're using compression and the distortion and it just keeps kind of multiplying its sound.

Yeah, just trying something that's different, even if there's a little bit of familiarity, that's enough to get you started, then for creativity's sake, especially if you are a writer or a composer or want to be, doing something just completely different than what you're used to doing.

Andit's not surprising that a lot of songwriting folks will say, well, if you, play with guitar, then try keys. Well, maybe keys is not your thing. So if you're used to guitar, then play something that's kind of like guitar, but not really guitar and will give you a a new spark to do something totally different.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, I, tried keys, I tried keys so hard. I tried drums a little bit. I really wish I could go back to both of those, but unfortunately, young kids and drums in the house don't really work right yet, you know?

COMBINING DIFFERENT MUSICAL INFLUENCES

RYAN PRYOR: One of the things I do, I record with a guy in Florida, that I met through a friend from high school and he is a, traditionally a metal guitarist. So he is got Ibanez and he is, you know, doing squeal things and like all these different fast runs.

more often a story in them and don't even necessarily always have, choruses. So I'm working from that side and he's working from this metal side, and we're always trying to figure out, and then, the dulcimer entered the spectrum over the last several years.

And now he's the one who's like, well, we gotta make a space for that, right? We could put it on the bridge?is it in the right key? Do we need to change? And I'm like, wow, this is unexpected, you know?Trying to marry those two things up together, it's fun.

BECKY BOYLAND: I, love that and do think that that isreally just a microcosm of how so many artists are bringing in tons of different influences and yeah, it's definitely where the vibe is at. I enjoy that as well. And I have a side project where I do electronic music. I am at least pulling some of the tips and tricks into my more acoustic music. I'm just using that knowledge and sometimes I'll pull in other elements and it's nice to see that all kind of work together. And there are definitely stringed instruments that make their way into my electronic music too, so, yeah.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah, I don't usually vibe with things that are too much of one or the other, or too much of the electric. If I was really to break it down. I can handle acoustic, but I think that's 'cause of the strings in the background for me, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: That's awesome.

WHERE TO FIND MORE INFORMATION AND COURSES

RYAN PRYOR: What's next? What's next, Becky?

BECKY BOYLAND: Well, what's next is I think, um, where can people find out about what you are up to and where can they sign up for your courses and find these very beautiful instruments for themselves?

RYAN PRYOR: All of it happens at hey, H-E-Y Inglewood.com. There certainly are social media and YouTube places to look as well, but, the courses instruments and downloads are on the website. if people want to chat with me about what they, might wanna try out in any way, shape, or form or just ask questions. they can reach me over on the website or at hey, H-E-Y @heyinglewood.com. And I, as of right now, at least am aiming to answer all of those emails. currently it's not a flood, but it's also not my day job.

Sometimes I'm a week delayed on getting back to people, but I really enjoy hearing from folks. so yeah, that's where you find me.

BECKY BOYLAND: Fantastic. And I will have all of that in the show notes as well. And this has been absolutely delightful I think there's a lot of really fun music that is to be made with these instruments and I know that that's gonna be true of me and I've just so enjoyed talking to you about it.

RYAN PRYOR: Yeah. Thanks so much, Becky. I want to hear what you've come up with as soon as possible. Um, so. All right, well this has been great.

Thank you.

BECKY BOYLAND: Thank you!

CODA

BECKY BOYLAND: Wasn't that fun? What I love most about Ryan's story is how it shows that creativity doesn't always look like a record deal or a concert stage. Sometimes your second verse is about rediscovering joy or creating something that helps others find theirs.

We talked about the unexpected way, a dulcimer guitar rekindled Ryan's musical spirit after years away from it. And the value of making music accessible, even for beginners or lifelong noodlers, and then the deeper creative sparks that come from trying something just unfamiliar enough to stretch you.

If you're someone with a creative itch, whether it's picking up an instrument, launching a course, or chasing an old dream, here's your actionable takeaway.

Start small and specific. Ryan didn't plan to launch a brand and he didn't even leave his day job. He just followed what fascinated him. If you're waiting for the full blueprint, try instead to follow what delights you and build from there. That's the clearest path to finding your audience, your products, or your art.

That's actually a key principle from StoryBrand too. People don't buy products, they buy transformation. Ryan's Dulcimer guitars aren't just beautiful. They're vehicles for people to become the kind of person who plays music.

If this episode inspired you, share it with a friend. Subscribe to Second Verse on your favorite podcast platform, and leave us a review. It really helps others find the show.

And if you wanna check out Ryan's incredible work, head to heyinglewood.com. Trust me, you'll be tempted.

And until next time, keep singing and strumming your Second Verse.