Life, Death & Music: Benjamin Kintisch’s Journey to “Life Review: The Hospice Musical”

BENJAMIN KINTISCH INTERVIEW TEASER

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: When a person gives you an opportunity to try something new that's a little creative in your wheelhouse, or better yet out of your wheelhouse, say yes. Especially if it feels low stakes. Because in this moment in graduate school, I had no idea that 20 years later I'd be sitting on a musical that I now think is the most important thing I've ever done.

INTRODUCTION

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome back to Second Verse, the podcast that celebrates artists who return to their creative passions later in life. I'm your host, Becky Boyland, and today we're exploring music, faith, and storytelling in some of life's most profound moments. My guest, Benjamin Kintisch, is a trained chaplain, music teacher, and cantor.

He's the creator, lyricist, playwright, and lead performer of Life Review: The Hospice Musical, a heartfelt and surprisingly funny exploration of life, death, and everything in between. From his early days as a cantor to his years of chaplaincy and teaching to becoming a playwright, Ben's journey shows us how our experiences can bloom into songs.

Stories that reach deep into hearts and souls. You'll hear how he found courage to share his work, how he overcame imposter syndrome, and how he's using music to open conversations many of us avoid, but all of us need. Let's dive in.

WELCOME AND EARLY MUSICAL INFLUENCES

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome Ben, to Second Verse. Thank you so much for being here.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Thanks so much for having me, Becky. Glad to be on.

BECKY BOYLAND: I'm excited to get into your story because it's a very musical story all the way throughout, but your very interesting second verse, I think no one might've seen coming. It's gonna be super fun to talk about that. But let's start from the beginning.

When did you first fall in love with music?

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: At a very young age. I loved music.

I had a great music teacher, Judy Thomas. I went to an elementary school in a little town called Nyack, New York. We had a ton of creatives, celebrities, actors, musicians in our midst.

That's not the case for every suburb of New York City, to be clear. But in terms of my love for it, it wasn't just the town I lived in. Of course, it was the experience of playing music, singing, dancing, and exploring on stage, all in elementary school. In middle school, I got my first, let's call them principal roles. Seventh grade I got my first singing role. When I nailed it, I was Bert Healy in Annie, you know, "Hey, hobo man, hey Dapper Dan," that one. I was a very talented, young, classical singer. So much so that people were like, Oh, are you gonna wanna be a professional musician? I was that good. I chose to audition for some conservatories. I got into Northwestern, but it very quickly became clear conservatory was not for me. So I became a conservatory school dropout. I transferred to Brown University where I got a "quote" regular degree, a BA in Judaic Studies. I was very interested in Jewish history, Jewish culture, did Hebrew.

TRANSITION TO CANTOR AND TEACHING

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And after graduating, I looked at graduate school and I chose to become a cantor, which is for you listeners, a Jewish music minister in a synagogue. Five year seminary program, one year in Jerusalem, Israel, four in New York City. I worked very, very hard, learned lots of stuff. At the end of it, I did not wanna work in synagogues. Here comes another zig and zag, zigzag.

BECKY BOYLAND: Perfect.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: I had all these skills in music. I had pretty good song leader chops, and I kind of was scrambling. I found my first music teacher job in a "quote" regular school. It wasn't that regular, Becky, it was a Hebrew Language Academy Charter School. This was a new bilingual school in New York City where the kids, not all Jews, like Russians, white kids, Haitian kids, Jamaican kids, all learned Hebrew. Pretty wild, right? And I was the music teacher. Charter schools, unlike regular public schools, often have more loose requirements so, master's was enough. I wasn't certified. 'Cause I had a master's in music from being a cantor. It was very difficult to become a self-taught general music teacher. Now I do it easy because I've been doing it 15 years, right? However, this is not why you're having me on the show, Becky. I'm not here to talk music teaching. That is my good enough job. And for all of you artists, creatives out there, you know about the job that pays your rent, if you're lucky, gives you benefits. I teach music at a Friends community school, K to 4. This is relatively fulfilling. I'm a very good music teacher. I'm happy to say at this point in my career, Becky, full disclosure, I'm 45. I think if I colored my beard, I could probably pass for 40.

BECOMING A CHAPLAIN AND MUSICAL INSPIRATION

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: The headline here is I was in my early thirties working as a synagogue cantor. The main job is doing music stuff and leading musical aspects of worship.

But a cantor is also full clergy. So I was called to hospitals, I was called to nursing homes, and yes, I did funerals. What I found challenging was rising to the occasion to do essentially what was like chaplaincy work. We'll just call it more broadly, pastoral care work, meaning providing for the spiritual care needs of faithful people or people involved in a faith community. A chaplain is not a therapist, though I have a ton of training. I completed four units each 300 hours over a four year span, learned so much and very proud of it. Maybe when I slow down as a music teacher, I'll become a chaplain again.

For now, Becky, I tell people I'm only a fictional chaplain on stage. So, that chaplaincy moment, if you're wondering where does this go to the play, that's important because the play, Life Review: The Hospice Musical, is a musical comedy set in a hospice that looks a lot like the one I worked in. The main character, Rabbi David Goodman, looks a lot like your handsome guest, Cantor Benjamin Kintisch. So I changed some names but didn't change the good looking personas occupying the roles.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yes. That's your prerogative.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yes, that's right. Like one of my personal heroes, Lin Manuel Miranda, who's terrific, he got to cast himself in the lead roles of both of his first two big plays, In the Heights and Hamilton.

BECKY BOYLAND: Exactly.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: I'm planning to hold on for dear life to my role, the one that I originate as the young chaplain. It's an interesting role. His name is Rabbi David. He, in the opening scene is on his knees, planting bulbs, in memory of his deceased parents. We learn his mother had died at the hospice sometime before. By the end of the play, the bulbs have bloomed because it's spring and it's a sign of hope.

Now what happens in between? You gotta come and see, and that involves the stories turning into songs.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, so that's what I love about, as you have set the stage, so to speak for this story, that as you were hearing all of the experiences of the people you were talking to, they started to bloom into song for you. So take us back to how this all got started and how this sort of your second verse of, starting to write this musical, and you've got another one that we'll talk about as well, and how this is actually telling all of the multiple verses of the lives of the people that you were able to minister to.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: What a beautifully poetic and complicated question. I believe you started with give us the real nitty gritty of how this thing got invented and then made in the early stages.

CREATING AND PERFORMING 'LIFE REVIEW'

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: So I was an intern studying to be a chaplain. I was working full-time as a cantor, but I wanted to get better skills ministering to older people, sick people, dying people, bereaved people. Chaplaincy training, whether you do one unit, meaning 300 hours of training and visits, or you go for all four, which is over a thousand — that's what I did over years. You get very deep knowledge of skills for visitation. We tend to step into the room and invite a reflective conversation if you are able to verbalize.

Sometimes when I would be in there, Becky, if I had someone who was late stage MS, they'd lost the ability to talk, it could be the wife or the husband bedside telling me stories and that would honor their life. That's part of the life review process.

BECKY BOYLAND: For those who may not have had this experience, that is such a beautiful term and it's not just something you came up with for your musical.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: That's right Becky. So a life review interview is a clinical technique wherein the helping professional visits with a patient and/or loved ones. The structured interview includes questions that invite stories about a person's life. I talk about it as if it's like a highlight reel, and so a song, if you want me to break into music now or later, I'm happy to share a piece of the song. It's built around questions so that the listener in the audience, even though they're not literally a hospice patient dealing with end of life care or the loved one, holding hands with their dying spouse. They're in the audience, right? But they are imagining themselves as an older person or a dying person because of the power of the song. Here we go. This is called "Life Review," title Track from the musical Life Review: The Hospice Musical, words by yours, truly, Benjamin Kintisch, music by my dear friend, Michael Miller. Acapella is special because my accompanist is, back in Baltimore City. "Hi, I'm the chaplain. May I visit?" Who are you? What did you do? Where did you go? Who did you know? Who did you love? Who did you lose? When you had a choice, how did you choose? Tell me your story. Give a glimmer of your glory, how you got to here and now I am here to hear you now. We are here to hear you now. Life review, sing of joys and heartbreak. We can hear your voice even as it fades. Life review, through the triumphs and the sorrows, with more yesterdays than tomorrows time to do a little life review.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's beautiful and it's so powerful. All of those questions and how you weave that into the narrative. It just makes me think as I'm listening of, oh, those are questions I could start answering and that's amazing. I really love that.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yes, to reflect on your own life, and asking questions of that sort with loved ones who are a little bit older, a little bit sick, injured. A big part of my play is about visiting, right? A lot of the visits happened with the chaplain, but many of them include the plus ones, and that's an important part of elder care, hospice care, hospital care, all the care. The people in that bed, they need you, dear listener, they need you dear viewer. So if you have someone who's a grandparent, you're blessed, go visit them or use FaceTime or text or call. If you are my age, and you don't have any grandparents, but you do have your parents call or text or visit, and most importantly, if you have people who you love who are in elder care facilities, if they're in hospice, if they're in post-surgical rehab, they need to convalesce for two weeks, four weeks, six weeks. And Becky, I remember again and again, you know, you talk about what a chaplain does, most dramatically we do life and death stuff, right? But that's not all chaplains do. Chaplains do bedside visits with someone who's fallen and broken their leg. Their primary goal is to "quote," walk into the basement or walk down into the valley with the patient because we assume that the person we visit is in some kind of spiritual distress.

Honestly, for the purpose of your podcast, I'm talking two different parallel careers that started in my thirties. One was becoming a chaplain and then one was writing a musical about it. Now, the writing a musical about it, performing in it and producing it, that's really taking off, and so that's now becoming a new life for me.

I should mention dear listeners and dear viewers, that, I am the proud eighth time attendee at the annual Jewish Songwriter Cooperative Retreat, JSCR run by the fabulous songwriter Sue Horowitz. Must-listen album is Notes from the Garrison. I found my first co-writer there, Michael Miller. He's stayed with me for a decade and another person who was involved for a while is no longer involved named Andy, and I also found a whole community of people who are fellow singer songwriters, music writers, piano players, guitar players. So much harmony, Becky. Holy moly.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing and we've talked a lot about on the podcast just how important it is to find those collaborators. Find your people that you can write with, even if it's one time. But to be able to do it consistently and to build a momentum off of that.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Momentum is huge the first project, which has not yet reached the Tony's though I'm still still plugging away. We are the little show that could, we are over a decade in the making and I believe this coming year is gonna be sensational. The new project, I said to Mike, my composer and friend, I said, "Dude, how about we work together to do this one in less than a decade?" And he is like, yeah, I'm getting pretty old Ben. I'm 45, he's 64. He's like, I don't wanna be in my mid seventies when this thing is done.

And I was like, all right, so let's take a look at it. To start a musical, that's a one act, eight songs does the trick, especially if we're talking family / children's. They don't tend to have 30 songs like a Hamilton. So I said, let's make the goal for this summer, eight to 10 songs completed.

He thinks I'm crazy, but I'm just motivated. So we had two in the can from last summer, so we're starting with two, which means we only really need to get six to hit eight. And then in person, we got another two done. Now Becky, what's cool about this collaboration, because we're friends now, after many years of working together, you know, we arrived to the college where the retreat's held with big hugs and laughs and jokes. And I said, all right, so the two unscheduled writing times, let's claim the piano, claim the room we're getting to work. And I had the lyric ready. One of them was more edited and ready than the other. So he looked at the two, the first day, he's like, this one seems ready and we, we worked for about an hour and we made a nice song. We did it that night. People cheered for us, you know, "wet ink," people get excited, new songs. It's sort of like a party trick. If you can go to a song retreat and write at least one song, people are happy for you. More than one, you're like, stud. So we did two. We're, we're proud of ourselves. But we did set ourselves up for success by having me do the homework in advance and having a lyric sheet that was ready. I could not get that ready, that fast. You know, I'm fast, but it takes some iterations. For people who have never written songs, there's a lot of mystery behind it. Don't be fooled by the brevity of the finished product.

BECKY BOYLAND: Absolutely. It takes a lot of work to make something really simple.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yeah. And I see that guitar over your right shoulder. Are you a singer songwriter yourself?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. That's one of many. They, they multiply when you put them too close together.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: That's right. Especially if you put R&B music on in the background. That leads to more guitar multiplication.

All right, so back to Life Review. I found some musical partners, we co-wrote together. I am doing the fast version. If you wanna learn more, dear listeners, dear viewers, I've got a great website, lifereviewmusical.com. If you really like hearing me jibber jabber, I have over 20 podcast interviews posted on my website. I talk about this show a lot with a lot of people. Some of it's rather serious, like I've done a bunch of hospice and death and dying and grief podcasts. But I've also done shows that are comedy podcasts, and we laugh about the comedy that's in my show, and we laugh about the absurdity of funerals and death and dying. if you wanna learn a lot, I recommend the End-of-Life University episode. If you wanna laugh, Today We Laughed... and Learned! is good. And yeah, that's a good place to start.

Again, Ben Kintisch didn't think he was a songwriter or playwright in his twenties. And now I'm 45 and it's taking off and I'm starting to, you know, make decent money. I'm starting to speak with confidence as a writer. Completed one show, working on two more. Like that's very different from 10 years ago when I was like, "I think I have an idea." So let's talk about that.

BECKY BOYLAND: I think that's obviously a perfect thing for this podcast and a really great point about the fact that as we get over the nerves, or maybe it's just a matter of we get over the having to be over those things when we get older, those things don't seem as important, and what really rises to the top is that passion to do the thing that you've always wanted to do and to love doing it.

That's really such a great illustration for those of us who finally reached the point where, You know, I'm tired of wanting to do it. Why don't I just do it?

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: I'll tell you this, my first time co-writing a real song happened in graduate school. I was in my late twenties, small cantor school program. A colleague named Lance, fabulous piano player went to U Miami, music major. I mean, that's like top 10 school in the country. Easy. So then this kid was like a wizard on piano, like holy crap type player. So when he comes into class one day and says, anyone wanna write a song with me?

I was like, me, me, me. I didn't know how to write a song, but I was very clever. Always have been. Quick with the word. I can turn a rhyme in no time. Grab me a lime, it'll be sublime, blah, blah, blah. And you know, it felt like a low stakes opportunity. So here's lesson number one from my journey. When a person who is a friend or a colleague or a rando gives you an opportunity to try something new that's a little creative in your wheelhouse, or better yet out of your wheelhouse, say yes because why not? Especially if it feels low stakes. Because in this very first moment in graduate school, I had no idea that 20 years later I'd be sitting on a musical that I now think is the most important thing I've ever done. But I had to have the nerve the first time to say, "Yes, I'll co-write a song."

We co-wrote two or three songs. They were cute. Nothing really came of it, but, proof of concept, this guy can write a song. That was important. 'cause it gave me the confidence that when I had the good idea, the idea that I believe will change my life, this hospice musical, a musical comedy set in a hospice care setting — it's funny and wild because you think you can't laugh about all that, but guess what? You can. Super funny. And Becky, if you, or dear listeners, dear viewers, have ever been in a clinical setting, whether it's hospice or even hospital, nursing home elder care, rehab, you know that there's a lot of wacky stuff that goes on. Some of it is just because old people are funny or injured people are funny. Some of it is people are funny. You have the men and the women who hit on the care team. I have a song like that in the full play, not in the cabaret. You have people who are having a serious moment and there's like theological issues. We deal with that in the play. Returning to the idea of hospice care, there's some people who are ready for it, meaning they have a healthy acceptance of their mortality. They are cognizant. They've chosen to put themselves into hospice care.

A good example of this, Becky, I once had a congregant, it was my first year of chaplain training. A gentleman. I'll just call him Mr. Cohen. That was not his name, just a stereotypically Jewish name. But Mr. Cohen was a sweet man, very friendly.

Everyone loved him. And he got the scary news. He was already like maybe 87. He got the scary news that he had a nasty infection in his leg. A wound that hadn't healed, it turned bad. And they were like, yeah, we need to remove the leg and you might not survive the operation. And he is like, hard pass. Not gonna do it. Let's talk hospice care. And I kind of helped to introduce it to him. I didn't get any kind of commission for the referral, but I was helping him. But I'll tell you, he had a very good experience.

He was there for about 10 days before the infection took his life. But because he was all the way with it, he could be comfortable, he could eat a lot of pudding. He flirted with the nurses and made friends with all the families, great experience. I ended up borrowing his story to inspire a character in the play. Part of a cute, older Jewish couple and his kind of thumbnail characteristic, he's a man who wants to make friends. He's like the mayor of hospice and his big song, because he is of a generation sounds, Perry Cuomo, Frank Sinatra, sort of, "Swinging," and it's like, "My last day honors," you know, that kind of rubato beginning and then it gets to the, refrain and it's like, "I'll make a new friend. Do, do do, do, do do." And you know, everyone's bopping their head and snapping and it's a very cute, sweet song. Here's when I turn the knife though, the final verse. Instead of, "I'll make a new friend," he talks about how desperate he is.

BECKY BOYLAND: Mm.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And he pleads to the listener. It's not clear as he's singing to the chapel and the audience, the world, and he is like, "Don't leave me now. I need you here. I need my new friend." And you start to understand it's not just playful, dude understands he's dying. So having some companionship, it, kind of means the world to him. It's a moment that through the power of song, pops in, in quick relief, verse three and you're like, oh, we went from lively and funny soft shoe to turning the knife. By the way, I do not love that term. It's a little bit violent, but I did learn it at, at the songwriting retreat it means you plant an idea and it sits there in the song, and then you do a hard right or a hard left, ideally making your audience gasp, cringe, or moan in pain.

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BECKY BOYLAND: We'll be back with more after this break.

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HOW COMEDY AND MUSIC HELP WITH THE HARD CONVERSATIONS

BECKY BOYLAND: Because it is a comedy, it's such an interesting opportunity for people to basically have those hard conversations, bring someone along and have a hard conversation because it's not something that you wanna just go sit down on the sofa with grandma and grandpa or whoever it is.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Hey mom, what do we do if we find you on the floor? I mean, all joking aside, I encourage listeners, if you don't have a living will with advanced directives, get one. If you're not sure what that is, look it up on the interwebs. It can be downloaded for free. 'Cause I'll tell you, Becky, if you don't have one, the assumption in the United States in most places is dramatic interventions with hospitalization as a preferred route of care for an older person going down their final descent and, to quote my funny opening number, everybody dies in the end. It's way funnier when we do the whole soft shoe and all the jokes. But this is true for all you dear listeners. I hope you see or hear my play someday. But even if you don't, take this as a lesson, because we all share our mortality and if we can engage in a healthy manner talking about this stuff, it is gonna go better for everyone.

Now in terms of this play, you hit the nail on the head early on through the power of music, through the power of beautiful song, we are able to engage in difficult topic matter in a way that I believe is heart opening and can help families have tough conversations.

You had asked some minutes ago, "How did you get started?" It got started with first the proof of concept, I can write a single song, and that was a silly Hanukkah comedy song. That gave me enough confidence to embrace this idea of songs based on hospice stories. There is an apocryphal story I've told on many podcasts, and I'll tell it right now. I was driving home from the hospice facility one night, cell phone in hand, other hand on the wheel, calling my wife, "Baby, I, I had so many good conversations today. I love these stories. I think they want to be songs."

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And without missing a beat, she said, "Get writing."

BECKY BOYLAND: I love that. It's so great to have that encouragement.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yeah, totally. And it wasn't like blowing smoke, like, "That's an incredible idea," but like, "Get writing, you know, that's an idea. Let's see what happens with it," right?

For the record, I have a small cabaret show that's eight songs. I also have a full length show that's 16 songs with an ensemble cast, eight to 10 players, some of whom are double cast. So we did that second longer one for the general public and we sold out the room because we had this synagogue, this synagogue, this synagogue, this church, this church co-sponsoring. I had the flyers going to this hospital, this nursing home, this elder care facility, you know, hitting all the nursing stations.

Say, Hey ladies, come check this out. And theater groups and on and on and on. All of you creators out there who do shows, who do art things, who do music, you know what it's about, right? You gotta hustle your tail off and you may or may not get good results. That day I got huge results. It was like "call the fire department" crowded, which was exhilarating, and the show, Becky, was sensational.

You can see what it looked like on stage. That was such an exciting night, Becky. We thought, zoom, off to the races.

COVID-19 IMPACT AND ADAPTATION

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: So here's when second verse becomes third verse and fourth verse, that we had to do a major pivot for COVID. I've heard a few of your past episodes and I know several other creators of our vintage had to do a hard pivot. Anything that was live music, live theater, live dance, all had to do something different obviously.

So I worked with a coach. I wanna give a shout out to Alex Palting, her name is also The Hustling Creative. She works with clients all over the world and she's outstanding. She helps creatives make a living, which is a huge job. So I worked with Alex, she's in the DMV, the DC, Maryland, Virginia region, and she's a professional actress. I found her through a friend and she had just gotten an Off Broadway contract. Off Broadway is a big get. We all dream of Broadway, but Off Broadway, we'll take it.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And that contract had a March 30th start.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Broadway shut down March 20th, I believe.

So had her own private COVID heartbreak. And I was dealing, I can feel the tears welling up because it was like a major personal trauma in my life.

The show wasn't literally destroyed, but if you can imagine the picture, a show no one's heard of, and I sell out a room with over 200 seats, that feels like this is going somewhere. You know, people wanting to do a follow up appearance down the road, a da da, you know, like you can imagine the excitement I was feeling as producer and lead creative, and then six weeks later, everything shut down. So that was devastating. I fell into a deep depression to be honest. Working with Alex and talking through the heartbreak was important. After we got through all the sads, she said, we have to pivot.

You have two choices. I'm pointing off camera to the drawer. Take the script. Put it in a drawer. That's choice number one. So, one option, if you have a project that is stymied by COVID, you can totally put it in a drawer. And I believe literally hundreds, probably thousands of people around the United States, more around the world had a thing that was in some degree of movement until the world shut down to live performance. Some of those projects are just dead on arrival, never to be revived.

Similarly, all of you singer songwriters with guitars out there. Prior to COVID. If you're in a little town and you've got a song, what do you do? You play it at a bar. or, even lower stakes at an open mic.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yep.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: A bar implies like they've hired you. But if you're not at that level, open mic or like community sing along if you want the group thing, right? All three of those were gone once COVID came in. So what could you do? You could figure out your framing and sing and people were doing all the platforms.

For me, I did this pivot with Alex, where I took a full length musical that was 16 songs, I smooshed it to an eight song condensed version. Some of the songs are so good that I had to cut, Becky. It was the worst. Such an emotional process.

It's like...

BECKY BOYLAND: it's like selling a kid.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: ...these children do you wanna take to the amusement park and who's getting left home? Mommy, pick me. Pick me. Yes. Definitely felt like these are often children though again my friend Alex, the coach, said, look, you're not shredding the lyrics. You have the full length script that is allowed to rest in the drawer till COVID is done. But you have a new project and it's called your cabaret show, and that's a one man show and you're gonna perform it for the white dot.

And I can sing with emotion and I can make somewhat uncomfortable long eye contact. That's a skill I learned doing lots of internet shows. I also, was still working in the synagogue world at the time, so developed my chops, doing online worship.

That was a thing that barely existed, but all of the clergy out there, they were doing services from their home, reading hymns, strumming their guitars, you know, whatever.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

Yeah. I have a lot of experience doing that.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Are you a person involved with the faith community?

BECKY BOYLAND: I am, yeah. I've been a, worship leader in churches for all of my adult life,

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Amazing. So separate from this recording, if you ever wanna talk shop about music in the faith world. Got a lot to say, but I don't think that's germane to the second verse journey. For the second verse journey for me, like I said, it's twofold. It's becoming a chaplain and then becoming a playwright. Fast forward to the end of COVID, I'm proud to say that I got over 10 appearances doing the one man show, performing for that white dot, and it took a lot of extra hustle and creativity. But here's what happened. If you think of all of the places new musicians do their stuff, many of them pivoted because everyone pivoted. So, nursing homes: famous place where unemployed musicians do gigs, right?

BECKY BOYLAND: True.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: All of your broke musicians play nursing homes. A lot of them will play literally a hundred to $200 per hour, sing along. So if you can stack three of those in the morning, 600 bucks before lunch, you're a champ, right?

They might not start at $200, maybe if it's $100, but still $300 before lunch. I'll take that too. But I digress. So there's a lot of opportunities for me to share this thing. And during COVID, I was like, all right, I've got contacts at this big Jewish nursing home place. Let's do it. That was my biggest audience ever because they piped it into hundreds of rooms throughout the facility. So everyone saw me on the TV. Pretty cool, huh?

BECKY BOYLAND: that's amazing.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Uh, yeah. I had a friend, one of my all time favorite podcast appearances. My conversation with Today We Laughed... and Learned, we were really talking about it, and we had a great conversation.

THE POWER OF SUPPORT IN CREATIVE PROJECTS

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And then when the show recording stopped, she said, "Ben, I love this project. How can I help?" Magic words.

BECKY BOYLAND: Fantastic.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: When you're a creative. If no one offers help, then you say, who should I talk to next? Where should I bring this next? If it's a performer thing, I say that all the time. But if someone says to me the magic words, "I love your project. How can I help? I love what you're doing. How can I contribute?" that to me is a signal sentence as in they want to help with counsel or money, or both. Hopefully money. Because money we know is the rocket fuel that powers art forward. Especially theater. 'cause theater ain't cheap. So, we did okay financially, but it wasn't like we printed money. However, like super exciting, positive experience right before COVID.

NAVIGATING THE COVID ERA AND FRINGE FESTIVALS

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Then the COVID shutdown, we did all the streaming. Since then, Becky, I'm proud to say the one man show has been featured in three different fringe festivals. Asheville Fringe in North Carolina, Charm City Fringe in Baltimore City, Maryland, and most recently the Southeast(ern) Theater Conference Convention Fringe Festival. That was in Baltimore this year. So that was like a baby, a baby fringe within a big theater conference. And I hope to get more in the future.

This past spring, I got the grant that I, mentioned earlier and I used it to fund two community facing performances with cheap and deeply subsidized tickets for senior citizens. That was two different shows, one of which had the baby orchestra, one of which was just voice and piano. Two weeks ago, I did a synagogue show at my boyhood synagogue in the Hudson Valley that's north of New York City. That was amazing. About a hundred people, a beautiful room. And I just did the songwriting retreat, Becky, which was amazing. And several friends from there, they're hearing my progress and they say, Ben, I'd like to bring you out, meaning, book me to do my show in their community.

THE IMPORTANCE OF SCHEDULING AND FOLLOW-UPS

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Instead of just letting that go and saying, that sounds cool, I'm gonna say, you know what? I'm so glad to hear that. Let's schedule an appointment right now for after our songwriting retreat when we can talk business. So I have an appointment with my friend who wants to bring me to Fort Worth, Dallas. I have an appointment with my friend about a New England tour. I have an appointment with a different friend to go to Cleveland, but hey, Cleveland has some of the most famous hospitals in the country. Maybe I could get Cleveland Clinic to co-sponsor. So I think the opportunities are tremendous and I'm very excited at this moment. You can hear the energy in my voice because so many opportunities are presenting themselves.

BECKY BOYLAND: Well I wanna highlight some takeaways from what you're saying there, because those relationships and connections are crucial. It's not just how good you are. That's a bare minimum really for any artist to have a certain level where people do want to follow you, listen to you, all of those kinds of things.

So it's not just about that. It's so much about who you know. And again, those don't have to be really famous, professional, high level people. Those can be people that you are collaborating with and building these...

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: you know, and then they have networks.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yes. And then taking advantage, of those opportunities by pulling out your calendar and saying, we're gonna write this down. We're gonna book this now is also such a critical thing because it's very easy to say... it's just like saying to someone you haven't seen for a while, "Let's grab coffee..."

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: get a cup of coffee

BECKY BOYLAND: it's not gonna happen

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: We made the exact same joke. Becky, that's so funny. One thing that has happened that I'm proud of is I keep doing engagements and keep looking for opportunities to share it.

COLLABORATIONS AND OVERCOMING IMPOSTER SYNDROME

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: I have two major musician friends, Becky, who are my co-writers. One is Michael Miller. One is Jason Spiewak. Jason, if you look on the site, has a crazy impressive bio. He votes for the Grammys. He's been on recordings. He's like a real music business dude. When I approached him about co-writing, I had my imposter syndrome off the charts. Off the charts. But he was like, oh yeah, that sounds cool. I believe he's still objectively at least 80% cooler than me, but I'm proud to say that because of my really good lyrics, he has co-written an awesome musical. So that's kind of cool.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing. And you took a swing, which is also so very important because you saw that you had an opportunity to work with someone that could elevate where you are and

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: At the same time, Jason Spiewak, who is a studio level musician, professional songwriter friend, kind of friend in the universe of like preschool dads. You know, all the dads are the same age, so you kind of become situational friends. He and I became friends that way. And then I initiated the songwriting partnership. With Michael Miller, he was at the song retreat eight years ago, the inaugural summer of this program, and he and I connected then.

THE JOURNEY OF A CREATIVE: FROM IDEAS TO EXECUTION

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Dear viewers and dear listeners, as you hinted at a moment ago, Becky, it took some nerve.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: It took some nerve. The first time I took the lyric, we're talking 10 years ago, and shared it with room full of people, it took some nerve to invite volunteers in the community to give their time for four weekends. I just had the mentality of like, who am I to? I'm just some schlub who made a hospice musical no one thought of. So the mentality at that point was imposter syndrome, like in layer upon layer around me, even though I was proving that voice wrong by co-writing 14, 15, 16 musical theater songs of excellent quality, dare I say, on a topic that is challenging, and some of the songs are beautiful and sad, and some are hilarious. There's a raunchy one. It's awesome, right? I'm very proud of the material, but then I didn't know how to produce, Becky. I had never staged shows. Parenthetical comment, a lot of us creatives, we are good at art, we are good at lyrics. Executive function is a beast,

BECKY BOYLAND: Absolutely. We trip over that very, very much.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yeah, you can relate to that. It's a different skill. I have a wall calendar up on the wall with six months ahead to show engagements. So I am hoping over the summer to work my tail off to fill that. My audacious goal is to have 10 appearances away from my local county in the coming calendar year. I think I can totally do it, especially 'cause some tours will include two or three appearances, right? So it's not like every other weekend. I'm going to do that partially because I've done some of these small and medium appearances with success. The performances, by the way, are getting better and better.

I'm owning the space. My guitar chops, the vocal chops are like chef's kiss. Very proud of that progress because I've worked at it.

I'm a professional level vocalist, Becky. But you know, you got the guitar behind you. When you have a gig, even if you're already good, you wanna work at it.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, yeah. It needs to be second nature where you can't get it wrong if you're gonna feel comfortable with what you're doing.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yes, yes to that. And to add another layer, if it's musical theater style performing, you are layering not just vocal technique, but acting. Presentational moves to go on top of the vocal. I'm a professional level vocalist. I've been in and out of voice lessons since I'm 15, that's 30 years. So I'm well-trained. I have a beautiful high tenor instrument. People are like, oh, you can sing. It's true. However, my cabaret show, Becky, eight songs in a row with narration. I'm wiped. Now, I wrote it for myself. It takes some nerve to do a one man show, and I know I'm a good singer, but real talk, if you're a vocalist listening, you know, if you have a big night of singing, it can be challenging. So like regarding the vocal health, Becky, it's time for me to be back in voice lessons, I have a master's in Sacred Music. I can knock your socks off as a vocalist, but if I have an engagement with three gigs in one long weekend, good luck sounding nice on those high notes at gig number three. Am I right?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. That is. It is. And there are times and seasons when we'll have to focus on certain aspects of our vocal health and all of a sudden there's, there's some other part of the voice that's saying like, Hey, what about me? I need a little bit of help here.

And yeah, I had to go through that when I lost my voice after spine surgery. I had to work really hard on getting my upper register back. And I didn't worry too much about my lower register because it was just always there and I was working it so hard 'cause I could still talk with it. But after a few months I was not as confident both in the transition between the registers, but some of those lower notes seemed to be going away. So I had to circle back

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Oh,

BECKY BOYLAND: work on that for a bit and just kinda keep that, going back and forth to make sure that they both were getting their due.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Well, Becky, I'm glad that you've been working on your voice. My main role here today is promoting my musical and telling you about that journey.

ENCOURAGING MUSICAL EXPLORATION

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: My day job, my good enough job is I'm a music teacher, K-4, and I'm always encouraging children to try stuff.

And dear listeners, I always talk to their parents and I am like, I don't proselytize religion, but I proselytize musical instruments for grownups. So for you listeners, you see over Becky's shoulder and you see over Ben's shoulder. Both of us have these cool guitars in the background. I don't know how much it makes us play, but having it nearby helps.

This has not Ben, the chaplain, but Ben, the music teacher. Your old music self misses you. So if you were in junior high or high school and you had a band instrument, look for it. You might be surprised you still know how to play trumpet or flute or violin. If it got given away or sold you are now a grownup and you're allowed to purchase things. If playing used to make you really happy, I bet it will make you really happy as an adult.

Now you don't have to do something impressive. This is what prevents so many adults from re-accessing their youthful joy. There's a lot of aspirational hobbying.

THE ROLE OF HOBBIES IN A CREATIVE LIFE

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Here's something I encourage you to try, and this comes from a creative and a music teacher by trade. Try playing in some new sandboxes.

Maybe make this a summer thing. So for me, I'm a playwright. I specialize in writing lyrics. Melody's a little tricky. I'm trying to play a little bit with like piano, xylophone, recorder, just to mess with melody. I don't think I'm gonna abandon co-writing with my composer friends 'cause they're great. However, I can write a little melody and I'm, challenging myself to do a little bit more of that. So that's thing one. Just playing with melody. Thing two, ukulele. Two years ago, my ukulele teacher quit a week before school instead of canceling the workshop, I hired myself. I was just walking around campus playing all the time, every recess, every cafeteria, ukulele, ukulele. Guess what, Becky? In two weeks I was good enough to teach a second grader, and then I hired someone to replace me. But I mentioned ukulele because I didn't quit. After those two months of teaching, I kept going. I have fallen in love with the ukulele. And honestly, coming off of this songwriting retreat, Becky, I wanna start guitar lessons again because the people there, they're so good at guitar, so good.

THE IMPACT OF RETREATS AND SONGWRITING PROMPTS

BECKY BOYLAND: So tell me a little bit more about this retreat, because I've had those wonderful experiences as well, and that collaboration has had such a profound impact on what you're doing now and what you have coming next.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Yes. So this retreat, the Jewish Songwriter Cooperative Retreat, organized by Sue Horowitz, it's been going eight years. We're all Jewish musicians involved in the Jewish community. Some of the music is sacred, some of the music is secular, but community thing. And also in addition to songwriting activities, we do beautiful spirited musically infused Jewish worship, morning and evening of each day of the retreat. In a group of 36 people, anyone who wants a chance to be part of a prayer team, to lead praise music as you do in church, right? They can do it. And so what's fun about that for the songwriters and the musicians in the group, we typically, if we're a cantor or a rabbi, it is a different experience because you're up on the stage, you know, doing the thing. And even if you have a guitar, it's still like a little bit frontal. It's a little bit removed. In our group, 36 people only in a circle. So if you're sitting and you're doing a song, and of course this group, it's all singers, instant harmony, you know, if they're playing shaky egg, it's generally on the beat. The place, it wasn't just about the music worship, that kind of book ended each day, morning and evening. In between, we had activities such as percolate and prompt. That's when our fearless leader, Sue, gave us a song to listen to, an example song. We talked about it and then we took one angle of the song to do a prompt. And so that became a jumping off point for a different activity. Let's generate a list of, five items that we see from where we sit at work. Five items that have been given to us over our life from our parents or loved ones. So you had 10 items, took you a few minutes, and then she said pick one and write a song from their point of view. So I picked for my desk items, one of my five was a paper program from the memorial service from my music teacher, who I loved very much. His name was Mr. Hughes. I'll, I'll raise his name up. Burt Hughes, a Blessed Memory. I had him in high school. He like, sort of invited me to explore musical instruments. He gave me loaner low brass instruments so I could play baritone horn, valve trombone in the jazz band. Knowing what I know about music now, most band teachers wouldn't do that for some random singer.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Very generous. And Bert was also a role model, as a humanitarian. Just amazing guy, personal hero. So he died a few years ago when I have the program from the memorial service. So I wrote a little song and, you know, the beginning of a song. And I talked about how I'm watching you from the ledge where you left me. And I can see sometimes you're skipping into your office and sometimes you're walking, like the weight of the world is on your shoulders. I can smell when you're getting a little ripe from too much dancing with the kids. And I can hear when you're singing and it's joyous and I can hear when you have to raise your voice 'cause the kids aren't listening and you know, so it was like you're supposed to use the five senses to make this inanimate object animate. Well, suffice to say that this was a very moving exercise for me and when I shared it with the group, several others found it rather moving as well. No melody, just the text. So we had several other percolate prompts of that type spread out through the several days. The cooperative nature is that all of the songwriting music workshops are taught by members of the group. So I taught one class called Write Fast Right Now, exclamation point, speed writing class, focused on using speed writing techniques to generate children's songs or proto material for children's songs. So that was fun, well received, really a great conference. It's a very creative time.

LEVERAGING SOCIAL MEDIA FOR CREATIVE PROJECTS

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Do you know the book Show Your Work by Austin Cleon? Highly recommended to you and your listeners and viewers. So his idea is like in this internet age, especially with social media, people are becoming accustomed to content that focuses on process. For instance, I have applied for and gotten several grants. Some I have not gotten, but like I have applied for things. I've submitted scripts, and you know what I do along the way? I pick up the phone and snap photographs of my hands on the keyboard. A zoom in on part of the screen, zoom out, selfie with the laptop.

I mean, it's ridiculous, but like four to six photos of the act of applying for a thing. And then I make a reel. And the headline is "Proud of myself for applying for Greenvale Art Center script submission" exclamation point.

Now, why is that worth my time, Becky? Because in the olden days, you would submit your script to Greenvale Arts Center. And it was like often to the void. No one heard about it. Honestly, pre-social media, you didn't really broadcast early applications of things. But it's totally upended now. 'Cause everyone's like, let me show you my process. I'm applying for money. And then in a month if I get it, I can be like, Hey guys, can you believe it? I got the money that I applied for a month ago. How many of you remember that? Then they start to feel they're on the journey with me as a creator and a producer. They are seeing me put out the content. I don't know how and when it's gonna result in action, but I can tell you it feels like it is helpful to keep the word out there and it's kind of fun as a new creative thing.

So if you're listening and you find this interesting, check me out on the lifereviewmusical.com website. Follow me, Instagram @lifereviewmusical. If you DM me, I will a hundred percent write back. And Becky, this is special for your people 'cause I know you have a lot of creatives. I have a particular expertise in writing a musical, so if you are a musical theater writer, especially if you're a first timer, DM me, I would be happy to answer questions over text. Even schedule an appointment live to like, just talk about the craft. I'm also interested in meeting other creative people who wanna collaborate. Are you someone with like a business and you want a jingle? Hit me up. I write jingles. If you've done a musical and you just wanna share someone, like share it with someone else's ears or eyes, I'd be happy to look at your draft or listen to your recording. So consider me a resource.

FINAL THOUGHTS AND ENCOURAGEMENT

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: And then the last thing I wanna end, sort of where I began this idea of being brave to share your thing. Be brave to share your thing. If it's a poem, go to that spoken word night, go to that open mic night. If it's a song, open mic night. If you're really afraid of doing it in front of people, there are online platforms where you can do it as well. here's the thing, and this is based on my recent experience at the retreat, people who love music tend to be a rather generous group. It's good to like keep doing things that are a little bit out of your comfort zone in addition to your craft. Do your craft keep making, but like for me, writing a beautiful song is incredible. Booking a show as happened today, super exciting and fun, but not really soul enriching.

So if you're completed with project number one, and your new project is producing project number one, you need to also dedicate some time to start with project number two, because everything has a longer gestation period and a longer trajectory than you hope.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. And it's very easy for those important business parts of music to take over. And they are important. They have to happen. If you have these goals, they

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: work to

get the gigs right.

BECKY BOYLAND: But you have to still make space for your art because otherwise you end up with this giant gap and then you're starting from scratch it feels like I'll never write another thing.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: No, and I'm actually writing two now. I've finished four songs on my new project, which is called Birdfeeder: The Musical, a far more whimsical and lighthearted topic. All of the cast are birds or people playing birds. Except for one squirrel who feels ostracized. Everyone's telling him to go away.

And then there's a bird dog definitely inspired by this handsome boy. Viewers, are you seeing him? Buddy? Buddy? There he is. Isn't he cute?

My dear friend Mike Miller, who's the composer, one of the two composers on Life Review, he's working with me again.

Another one is called Melusine, which is based on an old fairytale, like Little Mermaid, but not Little Mermaid. I've also begun a children's album, so like the songs and the music is just pouring outta me.

It's an exciting time to be a creative, and I also need to guard like an hour a day to do the emails, make the calls with my hand or banana phone, and then make it happen. Because summertime is the time when you're a teacher to make it happen, and I'm doing it and excited about it. Becky, thank you so much for having me on your show. I had such a great conversation with you.

BECKY BOYLAND: Thank you for being here. We've, learned so much about some wonderful, cool arts and very creative ways to bring up very challenging conversations.

BENJAMIN KINTISCH: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

CODA

BECKY BOYLAND: What a fun and energizing conversation with Ben Kintisch. A few moments really stand out for me.

First, there's the way that chaplaincy experiences shaped Life Review: The Hospice Musical. That reminds us that even in grief music can bring healing and connection.

Then there's Ben's advice to say yes to low stakes creative opportunities because those small choices can lead to life-changing projects.

And finally there's his candor about imposter syndrome and how collaboration and community helped him not just move forward, but take big swings and see them pay off over time.

So here's your actionable takeaway. Don't wait until everything feels perfect to share your work. Whether you're a songwriter, playwright, or a visual artist, start sharing early. The world doesn't need polished perfection. It needs your authentic story. That's how audiences connect and that's how opportunities come.

And remember, sometimes you are the hero in your story and you need guides to help you learn and grow. And other times, you are the guide who can make a huge difference in someone else's story as they seek to develop their craft. In either case, don't walk alone. Build your circle of collaborators, guides, and supporters just like Ben did.

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like and subscribe to Second Verse wherever you listen to podcasts and leave us a review. It helps other indie artists find these stories and truly makes a difference.

And so until next time, keep chasing your Second Verse.