Healing Waters & Profitable Paths: Bree Noble’s Second Verse

INTERVIEW TEASER

BREE NOBLE: I started realizing all these bands that I tried to join were not for me, it was me trying to fit like a square peg into a round hole. I needed to be confident enough to say, this is my music. This is the music I write, this is the music that I'm best at. And put that out there and see how it goes. So I decided to form my own band. we started getting gigs and then I started basically connecting with people at my church and saying. This is what I wanna do. Do you have any connections that need performers?

INTRODUCTION

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome back to Second Verse, the show that celebrates artists rediscovering music and a powerful second act. I'm your host, Becky Boyland, and today's guest is someone who embodies exactly what we're about here.

Bree didn't stop there. She built a thriving business, teaching musicians how to create sustainable careers through her Profitable Musician Show her Musician's Profit Path framework and her Female Musician Accelerator community.

Along the way, she's spoken at major conferences, written a bestselling book, and mentored countless artists who thought their time had passed. In our conversation, Bree shares candidly about what it looks like to leave security for purpose (and when not to), why treating your art like a business doesn't diminish the dream (but protects it), and how community and mentorship can change the game for artists in their second act.

If you've ever felt the tension between responsibility and passion, this episode will speak right to you. Let's dive in to Bree's Second Verse.

WELCOME AND EARLY LOVE FOR MUSIC

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome, Bree. Thank you so much for being on Second Verse,

BREE NOBLE: Oh, absolutely. I'm excited to be here.

BECKY BOYLAND: I am so happy to get started into your story, and what I do with so many of my guests is just say, when did you first fall in love with music?

BREE NOBLE: You know, I think it was probably when I was three or four. I used to sing along with the radio and sing full blast in the grocery store and stuff. I was kind of known for that. I remember recording myself on a cassette tape for the first time and playing it back and thinking it was the coolest thing ever.

So I would say three or four years old that I remember.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's amazing.

HIGH SCHOOL CHOIR AND MUSICAL JOURNEY

BECKY BOYLAND: So then as you got older, you got into music in high school and choirs. Talk about that journey.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, I was in a lot of church musicals when I was younger, but there weren't any really good choirs in school, until I got to high school. I was at a really great high school for choir. I ended up jumping into every choir that I could. I was in, everything from beginner choir to madrigal choir, the upper division women's choir and eventually even a women's barbershop quartet, doing solo competitions and all that kind of stuff.

It was really, really fun. It was a fertile time learning what kind of music I liked. As well as doing that, I was playing around on the side, learning how to play songs on the radio, on the piano and things like that. And figuring out that I actually had some kind of talent in that area.

I thank God for my high school. It really helped me understand how much I loved music and how much it was a part of me.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing because I didn't have that kind of experience, but I basically lived in the band room

BREE NOBLE: Mm-hmm.

BECKY BOYLAND: when we didn't have band. But I can't imagine having all those other ensembles. That would've been incredible to have. So then you took that on to college as well, right?

COLLEGE AND DISCOVERING A PASSION FOR BUSINESS

BREE NOBLE: I did, I wanted to go to college for music. I didn't really know what, at that time I was like, oh, maybe production. I was always really fascinated by the soundboard and all that stuff. Um, when I would be singing solos, I'd be like, it'd be so fun to like be the one in charge of the microphones.

I thought maybe that, but then. I wasn't sure, like if I, I knew I wanted to study voice, but I didn't really wanna teach. I dabbled in that a little bit, just decided it wasn't for me. I really wanted to be a performer. So I went to a small school too, Westmont College, and it was a, it's a Christian school, so I wanted to be able to have really like hands-on time with my teachers. And that's why I chose that because it was small and I really got to know my professors really well. And the school had a performing ensemble, a small ensemble that went and basically was like the front people for the college, performing at places and then being like, "Hey, check out our college."

And so I got the opportunity to do that. We were both... this was a very odd group... we were both a band and an a capella group, so everybody played instruments, but we also sang some songs a capella. We did some Take 6. We did some GLAD. If it would've been today, we, I'm sure would've done Pentatonix and things like that.

We just got the opportunity to perform everywhere because the college was sending us out and basically paying us to do it. So it was kind of like a job, but I also got to cut my teeth on performing and learning how to be on stage, learning how to introduce songs. And one thing I think it really helped me with is learning how to figure out what to do if things go wrong. You know, there's, if you perform enough, there are things that go wrong. And just figuring out how to not freak out or if you're saying something and you say it wrong, figuring out how to fix it. And so I think that four years of that was such a good experience for me as a performer and even as a podcaster, knowing how to speak in front of people. I meet so many musicians that don't know that, and they're just like, "And my next song is called blah, blah, blah," you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I had one of those moments, actually just this Sunday, where something went wrong and I'm a worship leader also. And I just stopped the tracks and said, "Becky made a mistake." I started over.

BREE NOBLE: You kind of got it. I had one a few weeks ago, I was doing a funeral and my music fell off the stand and I was doing like a solo, I was playing the piano, I was singing a solo and it kept sliding and I was trying to fix it while I was playing, all of a sudden it was on the ground and I'm like, "Hold on a minute," and picked it up. You just kind of gotta go with it, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: It makes it so much more real and we are people. We just have to shake it off and keep going.

BREE NOBLE: Yup. Yup.

BECKY BOYLAND: So then what's fascinating is you did do all of this study in music, but it doesn't sound like that was the next part of your career.

BALANCING MUSIC AND A PRACTICAL CAREER

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, I got the practical bug going into my sophomore year. I thought. I'm not exactly sure what I'm gonna do with this music degree, because I knew at that point I didn't wanna teach. I still dabbled a little bit, had to take, vocal techniques and I took some, classes for conducting and things like that.

And I was like, eh, you know, I'm just not really jiving with this. I wanna perform, but what am I gonna do after school? Like, my school did not prepare us in any way in business. They're just made us amazing musicians. And so I thought, well, let me just get a business degree. I like numbers, why don't I try this accounting class?

So I had to take it, I think for general ed anyway, and so I chose that class 'cause I thought, well, let me test this out. And I actually really loved it. I ended up loving accounting, ended up getting a second degree in business focused in accounting. Ended up like becoming the accounting ta and you know, really leaning into that.

And so after school, I moved, my husband and I got married. I moved to Southern California and I didn't know anyone and I was like, I need to get a job. Like I know it takes time to build up a career in music as far as like just networking and figuring out what's gonna work for me down here and all that. And so, well, let me go get a job in accounting. And I was really glad that I had that at that point because it would've been much harder to just have to build a music career from scratch without anything else because my husband was on a fellowship, he was in graduate school to get his doctorate in English literature, and so I kind of needed to make some money.

So I was really glad that I had gotten that practical bug at that point.

BECKY BOYLAND: What is so great about that is so often the narrative is you have to go all in, You have to be willing to be poor, and you have to follow your dream. But there's so much wisdom, not only in having some other way to make money, but the choice that you made to go the business route because that is exactly the problem so many of us run into when we decide to follow our music, but we don't realize that we're in business. I'm sure that comes up a ton when you talk to other artists.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, it was pretty ironic because I didn't really think of it that way. I didn't think, oh, I'm, getting this business degree and I'm getting this business experience so I can use it in my music. I was like, these are two separate things.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BREE NOBLE: Which is crazy, right? Because I was a business major and it blows my mind that I didn't realize I needed this business acumen to be in a music career.

But I was still thinking in the old school way. Right? This is the nineties and then the two thousands and I just was thinking, I need to get the attention of these gatekeepers. I need to get a manager, I need to get a booking agent. A label, you know, all that.

Not, oh, I can go out and do this myself and be a business. But I, I do talk to artists a lot about, like you were saying earlier, don't just go all in and follow your dream and all that. Like, it sounds very romantic. But once you can't pay your rent for the first time, it's no longer romantic, and then you start to resent your craft, you start to act desperate. Take gigs you shouldn't take, do things you shouldn't do. Do things that are counterproductive to actually moving forward in the career that you want. So I do kind of recommend at least have some kind of a part-time job. Take the pressure off of yourself to be able to make money in music upfront because I remember interviewing people when I was managing and you can smell desperation, right? So if you're trying to get a gig and like you need this gig in order to pay the rent, they're gonna know, and you're just gonna give off that ick feeling.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, you're not going to seem like the person who's going to embody whatever it is

BREE NOBLE: yes,

BECKY BOYLAND: that the job calls for.

BREE NOBLE: Yes.

TRANSITION TO FINANCE AND OPERA COMPANY EXPERIENCE

BECKY BOYLAND: And so you were working in finance for an opera company, is that correct?

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, so I started in, you know, basically the first job I could get, which ended up being working for, a water filtration company. But it was really good. It got me experience working in an office and, you know, just being that person, right, and being outta school and having a full-time job. But then, eventually was like, yeah, I'm not really passionate about water filtration. So I was looking in the paper, back when there were papers, and I found that the local opera company was looking for a director of finance, and I was like, oh, this is perfect for me. You know? And so I did apply. I got an interview.

Little did I know the reason they were looking for a director of finance is because the opera company had almost gone under, they were on the verge of bankruptcy and like this big whale donor had come in and supported them through this time period. And he had taken over the company and he had had to get rid of almost all the employees.

But now they had stabilized and they needed a new director of finance. I was coming into a situation that was pretty tenuous, but it was a place I really wanted to work, you know? So I was really excited about it. There was obviously room for growth and I really responded to the man who had taken over, he was the new executive director. He was literally working for a dollar and, you know, 'cause he loved opera, he wanted to save it. And so I ended up really getting along well with him and got that job and I, I'm just so glad it, it's funny because I was gonna probably go get a degree, like a master's degree, an MBA in arts management, and that's the kind of job I would've wanted.

So I ended up being able to get this job without having an MBA. Now, I don't know, just because the opera company was in such dire straits at that time, I might have lucked out. Like I didn't need an MBA to get that job, and I had only had three and a half years of experience. But you know, everything really aligned.

Like it was a total God thing, in my opinion that it all worked out that way, and I got the opportunity to work as a director of finance at the opera.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's so amazing and sometimes those passion projects, even when we're headed toward music later can still pop up in the middle and be an adjacent field, so to

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, no, it was great because I got the experience to be around a lot of artists and work in the arts, but I didn't have the pressure of being one of the artists. And that was great for a while. But then eventually, I mean, so I got to go to all these fancy balls and I got to, you know, sit in the front row for all the shows and everything, but eventually it was like, well, I'm here cutting these paychecks for all these artists that are pursuing their dream. And while I don't wanna be an opera singer. I wanna be doing that, you know? So the whole time I was kind of trying to figure out what my focus was, where I fit in music.

You know, was I a Christian artist? Was I an acoustic artist? Was I a singer songwriter? Did I sing musicals and classical music? You know, I could kind of do all these things. And so the whole time I was joining all these bands, trying to figure out what my place was. And, you know, all of them were okay, but they never really worked out.

I just really wanted to, pursue my art, but I was stuck in this position where I was writing all these paychecks to other people who were doing what I wanted to do in a way.

HEALTH CHALLENGES AND LIFE CHANGES

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's amazing. And so what was the catalyst to step out and follow that dream?

BREE NOBLE: Well, you know, it was thinking outside the box. At this point , I had had my first daughter, and well, a lot of things kind of happened at once, so I had my first daughter. Before I had her, I had been diagnosed with Crohn's disease and everything was fine when I was pregnant, but by the time my daughter was about seven months old. I started getting really sick. I was trying to, work this job at the opera. I had her in childcare like two days a week. So I was working part from home, part from work and, you know, running the department, all that stuff. Then this health problems. And so it all kind of came to a head and the job was stressful.

Like it was a very much a feast or famine type of job. When we were selling season tickets, we were flush with money and then in the summer we could barely make payroll. So it was stressful and that was not helping with the Crohn's disease either. So, after being in the hospital and just being really sick and weak and still trying to take care of my daughter and everything, I was like, I've gotta figure out a way out of this. I need to at least move to some kind of part-time job 'cause this is just too stressful and my daughter's not getting the best care and everything. And so I happened to walk down the street. I lived in Orange at the time, in Orange County. I walked down the street because there was an open house and I was always like, oh, I was always curious what the other houses in the neighborhood look like?

Do they look like mine? You know? So I go in, I'm looking around. I'm talking to the realtors and I'm like, how much are they offering this for? And the price they gave me blew my mind. It was like double what I paid just three years ago, right? And so I'm like, wait a minute. I think that we could orchestrate an exit by selling our house here.

My husband also happened to work. 45 minutes away. And he was commuting, so I'm like, why don't we just move up to where his job is? We could get and, you know, sell this house and take all the profits, use that to support me as I'm not having a full-time job anymore. It was thinking outside the box, not being stuck in like, well this is how things are, or, you know, sometimes you just get into this like, rut, right? And you, you are not thinking like, I could do something entirely different. I could move away from here. I could ditch this job and my life will be totally different. And it could be done, with the right moves. That's what I did. It took a little maneuvering because the market was funky and it was hard to get a house where we were moving and we ended up having to live in a hotel for a few months and you know, all that stuff.

But we ended up being able to sell the house for twice what we bought it for and have that nest egg.

BECKY BOYLAND: Wow, that's amazing.

BUILDING A MUSIC CAREER AND FORMING A BAND

BECKY BOYLAND: So then, did you just step right into a music project or did you take some time, and about what time was this?

And I was working on the music career, right? Like I had to reestablish myself. I was in a new place again, I was in a whole different county. I had to make new connections and find a new church and all those things. But once I did that, I started figuring it out. I started realizing all these, you know, bands that I tried to join back in Orange County, they were not for me, it was me trying to fit like a square peg into a round hole. I needed to be confident enough to say, this is my music. This is the music I write, this is the music that I'm best at. And put that out there and see how it goes. So I decided to form my own band. We started getting gigs and stuff, we'd play at my church.

And then I started connecting with people at my church and saying, "This is what I wanna do. Do you have any connections? Do you know anyone at nonprofits? Do you know anyone at corporate places that need performers?" And it turns out they did. They were pretty well connected.

So I just started building from there. I, recorded my first album and did the, release party at my church, which was really cool. I had the opportunity to sing the national anthem at Dodger Stadium, which was really exciting, all because of something that happened through my church.

And so, you know, I just really utilized the connections that I had made to build something. But the two biggest things were I became confident enough to go out there on my own and do my thing instead of trying to fit myself into someone else's thing. And I think part of that was being old enough to be like, "Hey, I don't want to be famous. I just wanna do music." You know? And it doesn't have to look fancy. It doesn't have to, you know, I don't have to get a ton of ears, just enough for me to have a career. And then the second thing was that I figured out, like I mentioned earlier, that I had the business skills to do this, and I just needed to think about myself as a small business instead of trying to think about who can I connect with and should I go to the Taxi conference and try to meet people.

And you know, I did all that and it didn't really go anywhere. So I thought, let me think about this as if I was starting a coffee shop or a cookie making business or something like that, that's just a regular old, small business. How would I build it? And that's the approach I took, and that was the most successful thing that I did.

BECKY BOYLAND: And I think that should be so encouraging to listeners because. You were working with what was around you, or you were networking with the people that you knew. And I think too often we think that sounds like an icky thing, but the reality is you're not trying to bamboozle anybody or take advantage.

You're offering something that people wanted. These were blessings all around to be able to work together and just to know who you had in your orbit and how this could grow into something even greater. And it's not something that people should be afraid to do because you have all these people in your life, and if they care about you and you care about them and you can offer something beneficial, then that's just a great thing.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, they loved what I did. They wanted to tell people about it. As soon as I let them know, they're like, oh, my daughter, she runs a women's, program down in Oceanside. Let me let her know and let me tell my previous pastor at this other church or I know someone that plans the events for this nonprofit. They all knew people and they all stepped up and did that. And of course I was building an email list too, so that helped 'cause it was putting myself in front of them enough to remind them what I was doing. And I, I also built a network up where I used to live up in Modesto and reached out to a lot of churches around there that, have known me. Maybe they'd seen me in the paper when I did something or they knew my mom or... you know, and I think a lot of times musicians are like, it's not a legitimate career unless I can get people that have never heard me and don't know me to like my music.

And I'm like, that's what happens later. You gotta build from the center and move out.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Obviously when you put out a new song and you only ask your parents and your cousins and your grandparents and whoever, that's a whole different scenario. And you know, that's not necessarily the thing you're looking to do, but when it comes to building this, growing business, why not start with the people closest to you because they are invested in you, they do care, and then you can prove yourself that what you offer is wanted in the marketplace, which makes it more than a hobby at that point.

BREE NOBLE: For sure. Yep.

BECKY BOYLAND: And so this must have been coming close to when you launched Women of Substance.

LAUNCHING WOMEN OF SUBSTANCE

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, so that happened simultaneously while I started touring as a musician. My daughter was about three. When I recorded my first album, I had still been dealing with health issues and finally gotten on the other side of that and decided to record an album, and then I booked tours around that release.

I booked a lot of Christian women's connections where they would put you up and then I'd do other gigs around those. And, I was meeting people, connecting with other artists, and at that point I was like, these are some really good female artists and I'm not hearing them.

Like I did nothing to it. I couldn't add anything and I just kind of left it there. But it was still building. People were listening to it. And then when I ended up selling my house and moving and I was home with my daughter and I had more time on my hands, I was like, why don't I try to actually build this again, but I need to figure out how to break even on it.

And so the opera was, was down for the count and I was like, Hey, maybe I could make that money back by commercializing this station that I've been building and breaking even on. And so that's when I started putting more time into it, building it up and putting commercials on the air and things like that.

BECKY BOYLAND: So I feel like I should be doing the math on the number of pioneering things that you are doing between, between the internet radio, remote telework, turning it into a podcast, which we can get into in a moment as well. Yeah, I think you really were ahead of your time and continue to be ahead of your time, which is what makes you such a great resource for others who wanna get into music and bring their music back to life, the dream they've had all along.

BREE NOBLE: Thank you.

DISCOVERING THE POWER OF SPEAKING IN MUSIC PROGRAMS

BREE NOBLE: I mean, I try. Like another thing is that I, um, I realize that I love to speak. Like I was saying earlier, I learned a lot about that, performing with my college group. And so I saw other artists that were adding, speaking to their singing programs.

So I decided to create a themed program. At first I did it at Mothers of Preschoolers, 'cause that was where I saw the first one. I was like, oh, this girl, she's doing what I wanna do. And I was there because I had a preschooler and I needed socialization. And so I was like, "Hey, let me look into this."

And I figured out that there were mothers of preschool groups everywhere. All over the country and a lot in southern California. Right?

THE EVOLUTION OF KEYNOTE CONCERTS

BREE NOBLE: So I was like, how about I create a program and I approach them and then I'll get a chance to speak and do my music and you know, do kind of an inspirational program.

And so, that's what I did. And you know, now my friend Tiamo, he teaches keynote concert, which is exactly what that is, right? But I was doing it before I ever knew him

BECKY BOYLAND: Right, right.

BREE NOBLE: and it was the bread and butter of my touring.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's amazing. And it makes so much sense too, because having music core to something like that is so motivating and inspiring and can be so powerful and memorable. So I think that's just an amazing and creative way to, again, do something that's helpful in the marketplace so that there is someone who is a keynote speaker and then has this other benefit, so I think that's really super powerful.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, it was like a one-two punch of I'm the speaker and the entertainment, and that always sealed the deal.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah.

BREE NOBLE: And plus the stories, they just really connect people to you and then they wanna buy your music in order to take it home to remember those stories.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, absolutely. And I just think about any kind of conference I've ever gone to where I may have heard the name of the person beforehand or never heard of them at all, and many years later I'm still thinking about them, or I still have their albums and all kinds of things too.

So, yeah, it's just such a powerful thing and we all remember that moment that's tied to music often, much more than what the words were.

BECKY BOYLAND: Hmm. Amazing.

BECKY BOYLAND: I'd say that's pretty incredible. So you've had this program now for 10 years.

ADAPTING TO CHANGES IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY

BECKY BOYLAND: The dramatic transformation in the music business and what that means for independent artists now because the opportunities and the approach, it's different than it was three or four years ago, let alone in the last decade. And so you are on the forefront of figuring that out to, to help them out, I imagine.

BREE NOBLE: I look back at the things I used to write about. They're a little relevant now, but so much has changed. More representation of women in the industry, the understanding that you can actually build a career as an independent musician without a label.

Like I used to talk a lot about that. I don't need to say that anymore. There's so much proof out there. People know they can do that now. Or just even like knowing that you're a business, right? That used to be a big thing that I would say, like you are an entrepreneur, whether you know it or not, and you know, I don't need to say that as much anymore.

Although I do think there's some younger people coming out now that are not thinking that way. I feel like maybe there needs to be the second wave of this discussion, but people that are my age and older, they now get it.

BUILDING A MUSIC CAREER AS AN INDEPENDENT ARTIST

BREE NOBLE: They know, you know, "If I want a music career, I can take the reins, I can do it, but I need these skills and maybe Bree can help me with that."

The education that I used to have to do in the beginning is not as much necessary anymore, which makes me feel good. 'cause I feel like maybe I helped educate the market, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: It is really fascinating though to think about, like you said, that this next wave, because we didn't know anything, especially at our ages. We didn't know anything other than what the music industry was based on our experience of consuming it essentially, and the dream that everybody thought they had to have and the way that that all worked.

But just like us getting used to computers and the internet whereas now you have a younger generation who's never known life without these things, and so it does make sense that you may have to go and circle back and kind of bring them up to speed because they don't know what the other industry was, but they also now don't know how to get started.

BREE NOBLE: They almost don't know what I would now call the old school tactics, but the solid, foundational things, like build an email list, or how powerful connecting with people live is in performance. They're so engrossed in social media and some of them have these ideas that they're just gonna have this entirely digital career.

And so I have to talk to them about, you know, you can have the power of 100 social media posts when you meet someone in person, right? 'cause that connection is so much stronger or when they see you live. Versus just seeing a clip on social media or seeing a video on YouTube, it's gonna get you there so much faster.

Don't resist it. Don't just try to have a digital career because it will actually be much harder.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. And I imagine it's gonna circle back at some point to where people will start to remember how great it is to know a person, to see a person face to face, to actually talk to that person, and whether they're providing a service or they're providing music, or you are just consuming their content when there's a person that isn't just hidden behind this facade of the digital and the enhancements and all of these other trappings, but they're just a real person. It's almost a new level of empowerment, even though that's the way it was. That's the whole point, what was exciting.

SPONSOR: ATTITUDE CREATIVITY

BECKY BOYLAND: We'll be back with more after this break.

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SPONSOR: SINGING / STRAW

BECKY BOYLAND:  Second Verse is brought to you by Singing / Straw.

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THE IMPORTANCE OF COMMUNITY AND MENTORSHIP

BECKY BOYLAND: What are the opportunities now for people who are wanting to get into music, the music that they loved and return to that after another career? How do they get started and what are some of the really core things that they need to know?

Just, a quick level.

BREE NOBLE: I think it's similar to what I said about myself, like to know that you are building a business and think about how you would do that through networking, through like all the things that you would need to do if you started a brick and mortar business. You'd need to get the buzz out there.

You need to get people to know it exists in as many ways as possible. You need to make connections in your community. So maybe now that community is online or you know, other artists in your genre, or I've talked to some artists who band together with other artists in their local community to try to help everybody else get more seen and get more gigs and things.

It's the same principles. You don't need to worry about gatekeepers anymore. There's also so many opportunities outside the traditional music industry. Once you get going, you get some baseline stuff, like you do need some credibility stuff. You need probably to get a few awards under your belt.

Just a few. Like don't go for every single award. They're expensive, but get a few songwriting awards, get a few artist awards you can put into your bio and then you're good. It shows that you are an artist that people should pay attention to. Get your social media up and running and have something up there.

Get as many friends as you can to like it and show some social proof. I'm not saying you need thousands of people. You don't, and in today's world, a lot of them are just algorithm-built anyway where they're gonna show the stuff to the people, not even necessarily that follow you, right?

But you need to still have kind of that social proof of a few numbers, up there. But beyond that. You don't need to operate inside the traditional music industry anymore. You can be your own booking agent. You can, and there's so many resources out there in order to learn how to do that, you can go do things outside the music industry, like I did. You know, be a keynote speaker. That's not the music industry. That's the event industry or conference industry, right? I just did a conference recently where they flew me out there and I did one talk, with music included, and I got to be there for three days. I got to stay in a hotel. You know, I made like one other appearance where I did a few songs and that was it. And I got to bring someone with me, you know? So there's a lot of opportunities outside of the traditional music industry, and I think they're so much easier to navigate.

There's also like the music licensing industry, and what I love about that, and I'm not saying it's easy, it's not, you know, there's a lot of competition, but you don't have to look a certain way. You can be in your fifties, even in your sixties, creating music for licensing and get your music out there and be heard without having to be, some video ready artist.

BECKY BOYLAND: Right, right. That's fascinating. I've talked to a lot of artists who decided to make that leap into music during the pandemic. That was a catalyst for a lot of things to change. I love really the a, a number of your points going back to community and those connections are things that they might have missed out on because they decided to start this because they couldn't be out and about.

That's probably a gap that can be filled and can help artists figure out those approaches and those methods and those performances that they might not have really considered because they would've missed that.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah. I think it's really important to develop both a community online and a community in person. That's why I love my Female Musician Accelerator Group because we are a community of people all across the world. A lot in US and Canada, but there's some in the UK, you know, there's some other places.

And just the meeting of the minds, right? Just having these people that can help you see things that you are missing. I had someone recently who, got a really big opportunity and she was so excited about it, and I was like, well, don't forget to, put out flyers about this when you're there.

And she's like, " Oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't even think of that." You know what I mean? So it's like you are so laser focused on your thing that having other people to help you see things you might have missed is really important because you don't have a manager, right? You're, you're doing everything yourself.

I did wanna mention one thing when you said about like, things that they need to know. I think one of the biggest things I helped artists with in the beginning, that I found was something that they struggled with, and even I did as somebody who was a manager at my job, realizing that once you are on your own and you're an entrepreneur, there's no boss telling you what to do.

You are the boss, and if you don't somehow create a system where you are your boss telling you what to do, you'll be aimless, right? You won't know what's important. You'll sit down to work on stuff. You'll have a big swath of time and you'll be like, "Hmm. What should I do? Oh, today I feel like doing this," and then you don't move forward fast enough because you're just kind of on this wave of whim instead of knowing, these are my goals for the next 90 days, and I need to focus on them, and here are the action steps that I need to achieve those goals.

And a lot of times, artists, because they're creative and they've got so many ideas and all that stuff, they can be so easily distracted with all the ideas that, oh wow, look what this person is doing. It's the whole squirrel thing, right? Being a little more organized and regimented, not in a bad way, but just really focusing on your time management, goal setting and things like that can really help, especially in the beginning or you'll be like at the end of the day, like, What did I just do for eight hours?

BECKY BOYLAND: I think that's huge and I know that especially as a creative, that's something that, If you don't set that discipline, I've definitely found that to be a huge problem because you also wanna say, Oh, I'm not under anybody's thumb now, I can just do whatever I want. And what I found is when we do whatever we want, we just don't really do much.

BREE NOBLE: Mm-hmm.

BECKY BOYLAND: Even the music we wanna do.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, and it's hard because sometimes you do need to give yourself that space if you're writing. That doesn't come easy sometimes. I remember I started writing a song at six in the morning when it was dark outside and you know, I was just in it, right?

And all of a sudden I looked up and it was 6:00 PM and it was dark outside, again, like what happened to the day? I got it done. I finished it. I made an arrangement. I did the things that I needed to do. So sometimes you have to get into that space, but most of the time that's not what you're doing.

You've got to plan out time for the administrative stuff, which I know a lot of us don't wanna do. So you have to pretend like you're your own boss, or be your own boss and be accountable to yourself and set up systems to make sure that you actually do the things that you want to do.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. And you have to do the things you don't wanna do so that you can do the things you wanna do,

BREE NOBLE: Exactly.

BECKY BOYLAND: and then hopefully you get to a point where you can then hire them out to someone else to do.

BREE NOBLE: Yep.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's the dream.

BREE NOBLE: But none of us are there at the beginning, so that Yeah, for sure.

BECKY BOYLAND: Exactly. Exactly. That's great advice.

BALANCING MULTIPLE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES

BECKY BOYLAND: So what is a day-to-day look like for you? I know that you have multiple things that you continue to do yourself.

BREE NOBLE: I do, I have a couple of people on my team. but I do a lot of stuff myself, I'm very much like a theme day type of person. Mondays, I don't usually record podcasts, but we're recording one today. I usually record all my podcasts on Fridays. Mondays, I do my newsletters.

I deal with my social media, all that, admin stuff. I also work at a church. I am the worship director and business manager there. My job is not full-time anymore, but it's demanding yet flexible. So I kind of, you know, go in when I need to into the office. And now that we have a pastor, I don't have to be there as much, which is great.

Obviously I've gotta make my Women of Substance podcast. I've gotta make my regular podcast. I've gotta, you know, create workshops for my students in my, Female Musician Accelerator. Sometimes I'm running a cohort course, called the Fan Attraction Bootcamp, so I have time set up to meet with them.

If that means I have to work on Saturday, that's fine. I'd rather take advantage of those opportunities when they're there.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I like to have as long as I can kind of grab some time or maybe a day or most of a day. But when we work at churches, we do not have Sunday off.

BREE NOBLE: Right. Your Sunday's pretty much shot anyway, so yeah, sometimes I'm like, well, you know, I already had to work today so I may as well work more, or I'll go to the gym or something like that. 'Cause it's not gonna be a relaxation day. It's already

BECKY BOYLAND: For sure. It is not our day off. Contrary to belief, it is not our day off.

ENCOURAGEMENT FOR ASPIRING MUSICIANS

BECKY BOYLAND: So what advice would you give to those who are on the fence? Like, " I don't know if I can do all this, but I love my music."

BREE NOBLE: I think my biggest advice is always get into a community of like-minded people, because being around those people will help give you the idea if it's something that you wanna pursue, right? If you get more excited talking with that community about your music, getting ideas, seeing what they're doing, you know, you realize, oh, I could do that. That's really why I started my community, because that was the catalyst for me finding a female musician community that I joined of people doing what I wanted to do. It happened to be Christian female artists back then.

And, just having that sounding board because we don't have anyone working with us on our career. And people that were a little bit ahead of me. I remember trying to do my first booking calls, like freaking out. 'cause I didn't know how to talk about money and going into this group and being like, how do you start the conversation about money and one of the girls was like, "Oh yeah, it's a little weird, but you'll get used to it. Here's the script that I use." She gave me her script it was so helpful to have somebody that could just pull me along a little bit and, cut that learning curve. That's where I think community is so important.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's really that type of mentorship that you're able to provide to the people that you work with as well. That they're not having to figure out something that they have no experience with, no idea how to do, and it's a huge leg up that's so important, especially when you are trying to do this after another career or your life went a different direction.

And so that's just invaluable and it's, it's huge to feel like, Oh, I don't have to figure this out for the next 30 years. I can learn from other people and actually get into what I love in a much, much shorter span of time.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah, and I think just having that encouragement, especially people who are older, right? When I first started the Female Musician Accelerator. I did attract people that were 50 and above, even though I was in my forties. I'm not sure why. Maybe because I was like a second career kind of person in music and they really resonated with that.

But seeing all these other people, they're in their fifties or sixties and their seventies and they're still doing so much great stuff. It really unlocks something for people that, you know, okay, I was a music teacher for 30 years, but now I can pursue my own art. Or, I was working in corporate for 30 years, but now, I mean, I've got people in my community that are like, I was a district judge, you know, I was a lawyer like, you know, and then they just, either they gave it up because they were so unsatisfied and were pushed ahead by their purpose of music, or they did what they needed to do. They raised their family. Some of them are taking care of aging parents and now they're on the other side of that. Being able to see other people doing that as well is so encouraging and will pull you forward more than almost anything.

BECKY BOYLAND: It's phenomenal. And really that's the core, of course, of this podcast and the stories that I get to hear that you, dear listener, get to hear. It's just so beautiful and I love hearing about those amazing backgrounds, and especially those who have gone through their career and did what they wanted.

They got to the point that they felt accomplished and now it was time for this other passion. All of those stories are just so amazing.

BREE NOBLE: Yeah. And so many, I think especially as women, a lot of times we put our own dreams in the backseat and we do everything for everybody else. I'm lucky that I didn't have to do that. I was able to work it so I could raise my children while doing it. It wasn't easy, that's for sure, 'cause a lot of people come to me and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm a mom now. Do I have to give this up?" They think they have to give it up. There is a way, it's not easy, but you can do it. A lot of people give it up because they feel like they have to for money, their husband doesn't understand how important it is to them or, they're taking care of their kids and just that feeling of, "Now, this time is for me." I love seeing people when they're blossoming in that zone.

BECKY BOYLAND: And so often the people that are in their orbit benefit because they are fulfilled and it's a tangible difference in their lives. I think that's just so important.

BREE NOBLE: Yep. I always remember this ad that I used to hear in the gym when I was home with my daughter, and I'd always go to the gym because I needed a break. I'd take her to the kids' club and I'd be in the gym and the ad basically said, just like on the airplane, you put your own oxygen mask on before you help anybody else that you need to put it on.

And that's why you're here. You need to be healthy in order to take care of your other family members. And I think that's true about creative pursuits as well, like for those of us that understand what it means to have this burning desire to do music. Being able to do that and feeling like you're actually fulfilling, an important purpose and a piece of yourself is gonna make you a better mom. It's gonna make you a better spouse. It's gonna make you better all around.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. That's so profound. Yeah, that's absolutely true.

CONNECTING AND LEARNING WITH PROFITABLE MUSICIAN SHOW

BECKY BOYLAND: So how can people, keep up with you, support you, and also find out how to work with you so they can learn to activate their passion and dive into music as well.

BREE NOBLE: Absolutely. Well, I also have a podcast. It's called The Profitable Musician Show. So you wanna check that out at profitablemusician.com. And when you go there, you can grab my 39 Little Known Streams of Income for Musicians. This is where I kind of show you, like, look at all these ways that you can make some money that aren't through the traditional music industry, and you may be thinking in your second career, Well, I don't need to make money. Well, you kind of do, 'cause music is an expensive endeavor, right? So even if you're not trying to do this as a career, but you just wanna keep making music, you need to make some money so you can keep recording and buying gear and all that stuff. So that's why we have the 39 Little Known Streams of Income for Musicians guide that you can grab and that will put you on our mailing list so you can get our super valuable newsletters twice a week, and find out more about working directly with me. And you know, if you're a female and you wanna join the Female Musician Accelerator, 'cause you need a community, which I think everyone does, you can check that out as well through our newsletter.

BECKY BOYLAND: This has been so great. I'm so glad that you were here today. and, I know I learned a bunch of things and um, it's just been such a delight to talk to you.

BREE NOBLE: Thank you. You too. I mean, I played your music on Women of Substance, so it's great to actually meet you in person.

CODA

BECKY BOYLAND: What a journey! Bree Noble's story is proof that a second act in music isn't just possible. It can be richer because of the life experience behind it.

A big takeaway? Don't try to force yourself into someone else's mold, whether it's music, branding, or business. Clarity comes when you lean into your true identity and build outward from there.

Here are a few other moments that really stuck with me.

First, there's the courage to pivot. Bree walked away from a finance career to embrace her true calling, but she took very strategic steps to make sure it was great, not only for her music, but also for her family.

Next is the business mindset. She reframed her music career by treating it like a small business, an approach that gave her clarity, sustainability, and freedom.

Finally, there's the power of community, whether it was church connections that opened doors or her Female Musician Accelerator today, Bree shows us that no one builds a second act alone.

So for you, dear listener, here's your challenge: Think about your artistry the way Bree suggests — like a business that deserves intention and care.

That doesn't mean chasing fame or building a giant empire. It could be as simple as starting your email list this week, carving out regular time for your craft, or reaching out to one person who might open a door. In StoryBrand terms, you're not waiting on a rescuer. You are the hero taking the next right step.

If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to hit subscribe and leave a review. It helps indie artists find the show and join this community of Second Verse Dreamers. And now to close us out, here is Bree Noble with her beautiful song of faith, Healing Waters.

FEATURED SONG: "HEALING WATERS" BY BREE NOBLE