From Law to Lyrics: Steven McDonald’s Music Renaissance

TEASER: STEVEN MCDONALD INTERVIEW

STEVEN MCDONALD: I don't think it really matters at what stage you end up doing it. I think as long as you don't have that whole deathbed thing where you have all regrets, it's the worst thing, uh, to have regrets in life.

And particularly when you have opportunities to do things. Even if you're doing full time work, you've got weekends, you've got evenings, you can get up early in the morning. You can do these things that are your passions.

If you have a hundred or a thousand people that just love everything that you do, even a small number of people, If you make a difference to someone's life by doing just something that you would do anyway because it's something that you wanna say, and a lot people connect with it, what an honor that is. It's amazing.

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome back to Second Verse, the podcast that celebrates indie artists turning — or returning — to music after life took a different direction. If you've ever wondered whether it's too late to release a debut album, today's guest is proof that some of the most meaningful music emerges in life's Second Verse.

Joining us from Edinburgh, Scotland, Steven McDonald's a songwriter whose debut album Songs About Love is filled with quiet dramas, hopeful misadventures, and the strange magic of loving and being loved. And whether it's on vinyl, CD, or streaming, his music is resonating far and wide.

Steven didn't get here by accident. After nearly 30 years as a lawyer, he reignited his music career during the pandemic. What started as creative recovery turned into songwriting mentorship, live shows, and his dream collaboration with Scottish legend James Grant.

In this episode, we talk about his retro modern sound and why physical music formats matter, the tension between creative fulfillment and financial stability, why live performance still shapes his songwriting, and how he's growing a community both locally and globally. If you're trying to figure out how to start or restart your music career without burning it all down, Steven's story will speak to you. Let's dive in to my conversation with Steven McDonald.

WELCOMING STEVEN MCDONALD

BECKY BOYLAND: Welcome, Steve. Thanks so much for being on Second Verse.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Thanks for having me. Nice to see you.

BECKY BOYLAND: Good to see you, and good to have you here.

EARLY MUSICAL INFLUENCES

BECKY BOYLAND: And I'm always so excited to find out what was it that made my guests fall in love with music. So let's start with music growing up for you. I understand you grew up in a musical family.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, absolutely. Um, when I was oh, three, four years old, I remember first musical memories, being around a great grandparent who used to try and teach me things on the piano, taught me songs that, uh, lyrics I really shouldn't have known at that age, to be honest. And, uh, and then, uh, I had a father who played organ, a grandfather who played accordion and played organ.

And, so I was surrounded by music from quite an early age, which was great.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing, not only having a musical family, but having so many generations and being able to tap into all of that musical passion from such a young age.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, that was great. And, uh, there's lots of enthusiasm for music and, and, and, and even the people who weren't musical in the family were quite supportive of everything that was going on. They, they loved music, listening to music, so it was, uh, they're quite happy to have it at parties and all these things.

So, so it all helps.

BECKY BOYLAND: And so did you have particular instruments that you really gravitated to or, or what did that, uh, take on?

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's amazing.

TRANSITION TO LAW AND RETURN TO MUSIC

BECKY BOYLAND: Now, you didn't continue on though with music or make that a career early on.

STEVEN MCDONALD: No, that's right. I started off, uh, with music , the usual thing people do, covers bands and things like that. And, uh, I did join a couple of bands where I was doing original music as well, and then eventually ended up going off to university study law. So I did that after, well, I did a business degree there.

I did a law degree, and then I had, I suppose 29 years doing work as a lawyer.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh wow. And then what was your catalyst though, for coming back to music?

SONGWRITING DURING THE PANDEMIC

STEVEN MCDONALD: I've never really stopped, uh, doing music, but I think it was definitely like a lot of people during the pandemic, there was a lot of time and I couldn't rehearse the band that I, I play with. And, I had all this time to try and explore songwriting again and, and try to look at songwriting in a more, I suppose in a more organized way. I'd always done it in a very ad hoc way before, and, uh, I needed to have inspiration before writing, whereas I definitely found that during lockdown I needed to try and I suppose learn properly how to do it, get the toolkit so I could try and learn different ways of writing where I got inspiration, et cetera.

And so I joined The Songwriting Academy, like a lot of people that I know, I've kept in touch with, yourself included, uh, met, met through The Songwriting Academy. So that, that made a big difference to me. And was the starting point of the, of the journey really, to get back into things.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, absolutely. And I think about when I would write before in just spurts and you'd have that inspiration and follow it, but I didn't have the skillset to recognize that I could write till I got the inspiration and that. That's how you turn the corner to make it something that's much more prominent in your life, whether it's a full-time career or just a hobby that we take much more seriously and that we are much more productive with.

And that was a massive revelation for me. And I think it's just because when you do have those first few songs that really just come out and you just feel all the feels and it's this amazing thing you've never really experienced. You think that that's the only way this happens, and then you end up with long gaps where you don't do anything. You don't produce any new songs.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, I think I didn't know, in the past when something was working or not, and I didn't understand if one song that went down well and was popular with people that listened to, to my music with the band, I didn't understand really why something was good or not, you know?

And I think that's the, that's the difference now. You learn to self edit and you learn to navigate your way through a song and also the whole thing about once the first draft is done, in the past, that would've been it, that would've been the song written for me. I would never have gone back to it. I wouldn't go back and, and do second, third, fourth drafts and keep crafting. Whereas now, if I get the first draft, I know that there'll probably be another four or five at least before I'm going to be anything close to the finished version. So, so that's a big difference.

That's one of the things I learned a lot from getting proper mentoring, I think.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah. Because we also then get really precious about stuff and we don't wanna make any changes. Like, this is gold. Right? You know, and, and especially when you feel like that song got dropped in your lap, you're not allowed to touch it. But if you realize that there is art and craft and inspiration, all of these things are just part of a big recipe around music.

You can go back and mess with it, and you should, most of the time we should.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Definitely. Yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: Well, that's awesome.

CURRENT PROJECTS AND ALBUM PROMOTION

BECKY BOYLAND: So what does today look like as far as, and any given day, you know, as a songwriter and what you're doing these days and how much that is part of the mix of what you do.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Sure. I released music as an artist as well, so I've just released an album called "Songs about Love," which was on the 25th of July. Had a launch and everything for that, So a lot of my time at the moment is, uh, is promoting that just now. And, since the, the launch gig, been pretty busy trying to arrange live shows. So in Edinburgh, there's a festival, international festival , what they call the fringe show. Uh, I did my first fringe show tonight actually. So I came from there back home and then I've got another one tomorrow and a music festival this weekend. Three more shows next week and some live radio. And then a gig in a record shop. So that's all promotion for the album. So, pretty busy for, uh, for the initial promotion and a single coming out at the end of the month as well. So at the moment it's that whole artist post release phase, I guess, is what I'm going through at the moment.

But I'm still writing. I'm still trying to write when I can in the time that I have and so that there's a, another batch of songs that are coming, which will hopefully get onto recording at some point. So that's, uh, so never really stops, the cycle, I guess, you know, you're always either writing or releasing or playing something live and it just goes around in a circle.

I think it's easier now though, that something has been released because I've got something there that I can point to: a big project, an album project and, um, so that'll be there, that's now, now out there, and I'll, I'll be promoting that for the next 10 years, hopefully, while I'm working on other things as well.

So, hopefully it's the constant cycle now.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, and I love that we're getting you straight off the stage basically.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, it's a nice gig actually.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing.

THE VINYL AND CD RESURGENCE

BECKY BOYLAND: And one of the really cool things too that I like is the number of formats that you released this album on. And there's this wonderful, cool, retro vibe to all of that in addition to the fact that this is also what's new and current and people are demanding. So talk about all those different elements.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah. I, I released the album on vinyl, on CD, uh, as well as all the, all the usual streaming platforms. I like a physical product because I, I go to watch gigs and I like discovering new bands. And when I go to watch bands, I could often buy their record if they've got something to sell, because I like to have something to take away.

And that was the thinking behind it with, with this. There's a bit of a movement in the west of Scotland at the moment in particular around vinyl and cd. There's a bit of resurgence. I mean, I think it is worldwide, but the label I released the album with, they, um, they've kind of pioneered this movement where, uh, they have a membership so people pay, I don't know, 80 pounds or a hundred pounds, and they get six albums a year or something from, from their artists. So they get that in vinyl and, so it's created a bit of a movement in relation to people that are keen to listen to Scottish artists on vinyl and CD and, uh, so I wanted to be part of that, 'cause I was a member and I, I liked what they were doing.

So I asked them if I could release through, through their label as well. And thankfully they were up for that, so, so that was nice.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's really amazing because I don't think that people, unless they've really started to get into vinyl, understand that it's really a premium product at this point and it's really hard to get your stuff on vinyl...

STEVEN MCDONALD: Hmm.

BECKY BOYLAND: ...as far as finding a good price break, and even when you do get that all sorted out, then it's just a, it's hard enough to find a lot of presses that don't have a backlog of a year.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Very true, There's one press in Scotland and it's actually, it's nice because it's about 15 minutes drive from my house, which was, which is great. And they were keen to have me. So when the album was being pressed, I was allowed to go and see it. And, uh, and it was fascinating going in, just watching, watching these records drop onto the spindles and watching the whole thing happening in front of my eyes.

And then get handed the product, you know, that, uh, they then, they then put on a record player and we hear it. It was a fascinating process, but a really exciting one.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's incredible. I looked into it a little bit and had gotten, just the lay of the land at some point. And I was really amazed because for something that's growing, partly because it has become such a popular addition, it's also still a very unique kind of process. And it's not like you can just go get one made up, like you can go get a t-shirt printed. So it's a, really, unique and interesting thing. And even though that used to be the only way that these things would be distributed, there's a reason why there's a resurgence around it.

So that's really exciting to be able to watch that be done.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, it is exciting. But I mean, what you were saying about the cost though is definitely, I can understand why people will go for CD rather than vinyl in terms of cost, because I think it costs for the same number of units made, I think it costs me 10 times as much to get the, the album pressed.

And, and again, that's okay because it's uh, a small run and everything. And that's fine. And, and hopefully if things go well, economies of scale, you know, things, all things will pay off in the long run. But initially, It's a big outlay to begin with and it's something that people, I suppose, need to be aware of if they're gonna go down that, uh, that route with that choice. It's not a cheap option.

The most cost effective one is definitely CD if you're gonna go down that route too, 'cause you can get a lot made for the money. it's pretty good for portability and taking to gigs and things like that. And also just, uh, profit margins, if you're looking at that.

You'll get a much bigger one on a CD, but still, it's, it is lovely to hold it and, uh, and see that it is something that's nice because I was able to get a two sider lyric sheet in there as well. So, so it's quite nice to have the inserts where people can actually sit and read the lyrics like I used to do when I was growing up.

I used to love that, buying albums and, uh, and sitting reading the, uh, reading the lyrics on like a Police album or something like that, you know, and it was exciting part of buying, you know?

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh yeah. And it's why I probably know so many of the lyrics so well as I do, but I also knew the people that were part of making these albums, the credits that you can now, hit or miss, get on some of the streaming platforms. For the longest time, it wasn't a requirement when you uploaded your audio.

And so you could have this laundry list of people who contributed to the project who get just about no accolades. And then you have engineers and, and mixers and mastering engineers and all of these other folks that are part of the process. And I didn't know what any of those things were, but I knew who did them just from reading all the liner notes.

And it is something that I, I definitely missed when we... you know, obviously digital is so great because we can get such accessibility to things, but I'm so grateful that now it is becoming more of a requirement, and yet you still can't replicate that experience of just curling up with a great album and reading all this information.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, absolutely.

BECKY BOYLAND: I hear cassettes are even making a comeback as well, and I definitely consumed a lot of music on tape back in the day.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, definitely. And, I keep seeing adverts for, uh, cassette clubs and things now as well. on the socials. I'm starting to see some of these, um, you know, people can get memberships and hear new music if they join clubs I, think it's a lovely thing and I'm, I'm up for that, uh, any, any format.

But I, I still do have a cassette player in my garage. I haven't set it up for years, but, it is there if it does come back. So...

BECKY BOYLAND: I have one old boombox that I, don't get rid of because it's the last one that I had that had a tape deck in it.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

BECKY BOYLAND: You just never know. Never know when you're gonna need to use that. I love the idea of these clubs too. It's sort of like an elevated version of Columbia House back in the day when you get something for a penny.

But I think that's a really great way, and it's also such a great avenue for independent artists to have that chance to get in front of people that will love what they're doing, but would never hear about them otherwise. So I think that's an amazing resource and I'll have to check into what might be available in other regions and see, if there are things like that that are happening because I think that's very, very exciting.

STEVEN MCDONALD: It is really great 'cause there are some artists that are on the label that released my record that I grew up listening to and I've met some of them now. And, um, it's a great thing. And actually it's nice when you see somebody that you've grown up loving as an artist, uh, you're like label mates and they're sharing your posts about your releases and things like that. And It's a huge honor. And, it just becomes, I suppose like the old days when they had, um, well in Scotland, they had postcard records and they had some of these, these small labels that had a bit of a cult following, you know, so it's become that for, uh, in the west of Scotland anyway, with Last Night from Glasgow.

I'm delighted to be part of that.

BECKY BOYLAND: Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing.

MUSICAL INFLUENCES AND MENTORSHIP

BECKY BOYLAND: So talk about some of these artists that you did listen to and, and some of the influences that have really impacted how you make music today.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Sure. I suppose when I started listening to music and, when I started wanting to learn to write uh, I was probably about, I suppose 14, 15 years old and I was listening to lots of bands like, I suppose the electronic bands like OMD and Tears for Fears and, um, Depeche Mode, and some of these bands, the keyboardy bands, you know, the people that used synths. I was fascinated by that. And then I got more interested in, in some of the local bands in Scotland. So there were bands, I suppose, like Simple Minds. Everybody knows Simple Minds. But then there were bands that are probably less, less known worldwide.

Bands like The Bluebells, um, Love and Money, Hipsway, Hue and Cry, Deacon Blue. A lot of them were Glasgow based, or Scottish based. And, um, and also of these, these artists, they're they're all still playing. The difference is these days, they're more likely to have a conversation.

You're more likely to get to speak to them now because they're doing smaller gigs and you can chat and things and even be mentored by them. I've been mentored by a couple of, a couple of my heroes, I guess, which is amazing. And, uh, you know, it's nice to, to hear their stories and everything else, uh, from back in the day when you have these preconceived ideas of what they might be like and what they did, and then you actually find out what they're really like and what really happened.

That's, uh, it's quite nice. But those bands were all, all really influential. I suppose even recently, I went to see Oasis last week in, uh, in Edinburgh, a massive gig. And, in the nineties, um, I wasn't as into the nineties bands as much, but some of these big live indie bands from the UK like Oasis and it's great that some of them are coming back and you forget just sometimes how, how good some of these people actually are at what they do. And, uh, when you see them, it's, uh, it's a real lesson.

BECKY BOYLAND: It's wonderful too that when you do get to meet your heroes, that they live up to what you had hoped, because that's not always a foregone conclusion. But it's so great when you can find out that these are really great people who are generous and, and wanting to help you to continue to grow.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, absolutely generous with their time but also just, uh, sharing the knowledge and nothing's a problem. You know, it's, it's quite nice. And one of 'em actually, James Grant from Love and Money played on, on one of my album tracks as well, which was, which was massive for me, to be honest, to get that to happen. I never would've thought, when I was an 18, 18, 19-year-old listening to his music that he'd ever play on one of my records so that was a huge honor for me that that happened.

BECKY BOYLAND: Amazing. Amazing. That's phenomenal.

SPONSOR: ATTITUDE CREATIVITY

BECKY BOYLAND: We'll be back with more after the break.

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BALANCING MUSIC AND LAW

BECKY BOYLAND: So what are some of the challenges though, of making music this key part of your life and, you know, sort of making this shift, even though I, I understand you're still practicing law, and so what does that look like?

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, it's, trying to make sure that there's enough income coming in, I guess, to support, to pay for things. Uh, I have a 12-year-old daughter as well, so, that is a big factor too. So what I have done is I've reduced my working days doing the legal work to I suppose three days, you know, a bit days now. So it gives me half the week to do other things. And, I'm not somebody who spends a lot of time watching, watching TV or playing video games or doing anything like that.

I pretty much do music all the time when I'm not doing, when I'm, when I'm not working, as a lawyer, I'm doing music the rest of the time or doing some acting. So I find that it gives me a lot of time that I can work on, on things. And again, I think it's sometimes just using the time that you, you have and using it as best as you can.

I find I get out quite early in the morning and I stay up quite late. I suppose I'm an early bird and, uh, and I can't, what's the other one, night owl? I think, uh, a bit of both really. And so I tend to find that I suppose I'm driven by the projects I'm working on, so if I feel that I really wanna get something done, even, even if I'm busy doing other things, I'll still try and find time, make time to make it work.

So, uh, I think you have to be quite driven if you, try to have a, I suppose a hybrid career. You have to use your time really well and, and, and plan it accordingly.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, and I think that's really wise. It's, mentioned a few times on the podcast as well too, to not just go and wholesale quit your day job if you wanna start pursuing this on the side, because there will be these long stretches of things that have to happen along the way as you grow and build a network and collaborate and all of these things where it's not necessarily gonna immediately bring in money and honestly, at the end of the day, maybe music will never really technically pay for itself, but the blessing is having the resources and the means that support that passion so that you can continue to do this and pursue it and do it with excellence and just continue to follow the paths, whatever they may look like.

STEVEN MCDONALD: I think so. I had one mentor who said to me that, uh, the best advice he gives to everybody that asks 'em that question about whether to give up the day job and go full time. He said once you're earning the same money. As you earn from the day job, that's the time to do it not before.

And, I think there've been a few, a few famous people, uh, who've said the same thing. Rick Rubin, I think, said the same thing, actually, I think on a podcast or something too about just not diving in until you can actually support yourself, because that creates other stresses in itself.

If you don't have the means to, to support your lifestyle and your family, it's, uh, it's not sensible, you know? Um, it's risky. It's risky. Fine If there's a second income in the house, there isn't for me. So I don't have the option to fall back on another income. So it's, it's all, it's all down to me, really.

And have to make it work.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, and it's very hard to be truly creative and fully invested in your music if you're worried about whether you can pay rent and buy groceries. So there isn't a lot of value in doing that when there are other options. And I think that that dream, especially of the classical music industry that "I'm going to get discovered and then it's just gonna be amazing." One, that's rare, two, that doesn't really happen anymore. And the third part about that is that those people who got those big paydays weren't paydays. They were loans that they had to repay through selling their music. And so it was, it was just basically upfront cash to get you started.

And that didn't work for everybody. So it never really was what we thought it was, and it's never going to be that way in the current music industry. And so it's really great to make sure that you're, you're covering the bases so that you have the margin and the bandwidth to actually make your art and not make it a hardship.

STEVEN MCDONALD: I think there are different ways of, of doing it. So I mean, I think if, if primarily you want to be a songwriter, if you're writing songs for yourself as an artist or whether you're writing songs for other people, you can use those skills and, and teach people to write songs. You can also teach people how to play music, teach 'em, how to sing.

Uh, there's, there are lots of different ways where you can apply what you know, and even things like, I suppose custom songs, I get involved in, doing some custom songs for people from time to time, special birthdays and engagements, weddings, you know, sometimes memorials. And, um, I've written all kinds of songs from people that, again, the key is, is making sure that you retain ownership of your, of the song, and I found that that's not really been a problem when the work I've done. But again, it's, it's a way of getting paid for something and, to support your income but it's still doing something that you love. And it's actually something too that is, um, You're improving your craft by taking these briefs from somebody else or working out what they're looking for, and then creating something for them that will trigger the emotional response and, make them happy. Give them what they're looking for. And I think, as songwriters, then that's something, there's lots of different ways that we can make it work. Even learning production and things, you know. I'm not great at it. I can do it a point, but I know how to get by with a basic demo and, I suppose over time I'll get better as a producer, but these are all, skills that we can learn, that are connected with what we want to do.

So it doesn't feel as onerous, I guess, in terms of being forced to do something you don't want to do, just to be paid.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah, and that's something I think that a lot of prospective artists may not recognize that there are so many different avenues and...

STEVEN MCDONALD: Hmm.

BECKY BOYLAND: ...none of them is exclusive, so you can't, um, or you don't have to worry about, I just wanna put all of my energy into being this artist. Well, you can still do these other things and you probably should.

And like you said, it, it actually allows you to create more volume of art in the process because you have to. And then that just comes back to feed in and enhance what you're trying to put out. So all of those repetitions, just like being in the gym are really helpful. And great ways to, to also build your audience because some of those audiences don't overlap, but some of them do.

And some of them will feed into and support those, those other connections. And that's really important too, when we're just basically throwing songs out there into a giant ocean right now of music. And so standing out can be really, really difficult.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting how people do it. I've got a friend in a songwriting group that I, I was actually playing a gig last night. He's a really nice guy. He ended up with 50 million followers or streams on, on Spotify, because he was doing covers. He was, he was doing stripped back cover versions, and he got quite well known doing that. But also he is writing his own songs. He is doing that, but also got an audience already. So anything he puts out, he has this audience, which is, um, it was pretty clever actually, but, I suppose if we all knew what was, what was gonna work best, we would all just do it.

But it's for ourselves. But, uh, but that's, it's interesting. There's different ways of doing things. Definitely. Yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: It's always challenging to figure out what your secret sauce is, but once you do find that community and build into them, then if you try different things, they're going to be excited and enthusiastic because they, they know you, they feel like they know you and they wanna support you and help you in your different endeavors.

And so it's a very powerful thing, once you've continued to build that community. You first have to get past the barriers of stopping the scroll and piquing their curiosity, but once you've done that and you've paid it off for them so that they feel like, oh, that was worth it, that was worth, that was worth my time, then they just become progressively more loyal and it becomes a huge snowball effect. And it's actually really great too when they do follow you as you try these new things. And I think any of us that's found somebody that we're like really excited about and, and are a big fan, we know we've always kind of done that.

"Anything you put out, I'm gonna buy." You know? And so this is that at scale, around the, around global audiences.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Uh, definitely. I think it is, it is good to have a, a, like a global community of, of, uh, you know, connections all over the world and everything. A bit of advice I was given as well though, was to also look locally and to try and get involved in local things, local groups, local writers and then the interesting thing about that is I found that I ended up being invited to play at lots of things, support slots and these kind of things where, um, groups of bands and artists will end up arranging things and then they'll, they'll end up inviting each other to, to do these sort of support things. And their fans get to know who you are, when you go on to do the support slot and, and vice versa, and suddenly it starts to snowball a bit in a, in one area, and then, and then you hope that it just goes a bit wider and a couple of local radio stations pick up on things and then that localized thing starts to, to snowball and go a bit a bit wider. That's currently where I am at the moment with the music. there's a lot of local stuff happening. But I'm still doing worldwide stuff as well, like this and, uh, and, and some of the communities that I was involved in before through TSA and things.

Yeah, It's just trying everything and then seeing what works and, if you've got limited time, which things you prioritize initially and, and then, uh, take it from there. So I suppose that's what I'm trying to do just now.

BECKY BOYLAND: That's awesome. And it's so exciting too that especially getting back into music with , or on account of really the pandemic, for the longest time, all of these local performances weren't an option, of course. And so now for some artists, thankfully for you, you had some of that experience with live performance.

So some of those who just decided, I'm just gonna go all in on my music during this, this lockdown, they may have a hard time kind of getting into that local scene and, and doing live performance, especially if they have no experience doing that. But if it's something that they maybe did many, many years ago or that they are willing to just give it a try and grow their skills and their experience and their comfort level with that, there's such great value in that, and it also is very fulfilling to be able to have local community, in addition to global community as you're trying to do this thing because you'll start to find your people. And as artists, we all know how important that is to find our people.

STEVEN MCDONALD: It's also's a different skillset set, getting out and playing live. Um, if people were predominantly studio based and they've done that before and then they go out and play live, it's a different thing because I find even, even tonight, you know, a couple of howlers when I was playing songs and there's a couple of, you know, dreadful chords and things like that, on the guitar.

Again, these things, it is live performance. It can happen and I suppose you learn. how much practice you need to get good enough for live work and a certain level. And, uh, and it's something that I suppose when I started playing live as a solo artist, about maybe three years ago, um, I was really badly prepared for it

And played terribly, you know, to begin with. I'm finding now, I'm more, more comfortable now. Uh, but it's taken, it's taken a lot of time and a lot of practice to get to a level that I'm comfortable now where I can, uh, I feel that I can put on a good show. Yeah, it's a different skillset from doing a bit of recording and then, uh, or even live on the internet when you can't see someone's face, go on Facebook Live or something like that. It's a different thing when they're right in front of you.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. And. We think sometimes that when we're just producing in the studio that we have all the time in the world and we can fix that song or we can worry that song to death sometimes. But when you have to prepare for live performance, you do have deadlines and limits, but you also can't just continue to play and play and play and play. You're, you've got one shot at it. But I think the great thing about that live experience is how that comes back around to studio performance because then you realize sometimes, "Oh, I don't need 600 takes of my vocal. I can do maybe four or five."

And, and even though I do still have those tricks and I can, I can do the things in the studio that I can't do live, it cuts down on that wasted time of "I need to get this perfect." And you probably don't because Perfect tends to take the character out of everything.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, absolutely. I think, the tendency I have, if I'm recording at home, I'll probably analyze something to death and, uh, I'll, I'll probably keep redoing and nitpicking over vocal takes and, uh, it'll take me three times as long, whereas, when I worked with a producer, when I did the album tracks, when I was going to the studio to record the vocals, I was doing maybe three passes of the whole song.

And sometimes if there were bits where you wanted to try something specific in specific places, we would go back and we'd punch in on certain parts. But pretty much there'd be three or four full takes and then he would comp the vocals. He made me sit at the back of the room, so I didn't interfere.

And, and, uh, I just let him make, make that call on, on what he thought the best comp was. And if there was something I just, just didn't like, then we would go back and fix these things. But it was so much less time involved when, when it was working that way. And it was all about rehearsing for the studio and for the recordings.

I got better performances definitely by working that way rather than just thinking I can do it line by line until I get a line I'm happy with. And, uh, yeah, definitely better to do it that way.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah. That's really cool. And I've noticed also when I sometimes take my vocals as if I were doing them live and just kind of go all the way through,

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: then I get a very different performance than when I'm dissecting it and breaking it apart. Although I will say that when I record vocals, most of the time I've settled in by the time I get to the second verse.

So I have to always go back and redo that first verse because it doesn't have as much punch as the second one. 'Cause I'm getting my groove, you know? And then I realize that, oh yeah, I can do that better. I feel like that is true almost every single time I'm working on a song.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, pretty much all the ones where I'm tuning vocals. It's always the first verse. It's always the first verse is the, the one of these most editing if I'm having to go back and do it. It's the energy as well. The energy is sometimes different once you've done maybe a second or third full pass at the song, you've got into a groove as you say, and then, usually you've got a much better performance by that stage. It's usually the later takes make up most of the comp usually find, yeah.

BECKY BOYLAND: Yeah, it's like I finally found it. This is where I needed to, needed to be two takes ago. But I think it's a, for me, it's just become more of a practice to go ahead and go back and redo that first verse and really get the feel to it. Because if I don't do that, many times, I would stop myself right in the middle of that first verse 'cause I knew it wasn't working.

And then I'd start doing it over and over and over and then I go back and listen to it later. And I'm like, what is happening here? But I've learned to keep it in context and it actually helps to make the whole thing make a lot more sense. And I think it also starts to feel less daunting too, because you realize, this is just three minutes.

I can go back and do this again a few times. It's not going to take up my whole life. Yeah, it's better perspective that way.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, absolutely. No, that, that makes a lot of sense. Uh, I can definitely relate to that.

ADVICE FOR ASPIRING MUSICIANS

BECKY BOYLAND: So for anyone who is trying to decide, is this something I wanna do? Do I wanna pursue my music? Maybe life's gone a different direction, but they've always had this passion. What would be your advice?

STEVEN MCDONALD: Yeah, I think, definitely do it because you're always gonna regret not doing these things and, uh, I I don't think it really matters at what stage you end up doing it. I think as long as you, you don't have that, uh, I suppose that whole deathbed thing where you have all regrets, you know, it's the worst thing, uh, to have regrets in life.

And particularly when you have opportunities to do things, and as I say, it can work, even if you're doing full time work, you've got weekends, you've got evenings, you can get up early in the morning. You can do these things that are your passions.

You can make time for, for these things if you really want to do them. I would also say to people too, that don't try and do things just to please other people. I think the best advice, if you have a passion , if it's songwriting, for example, write what you want to write and what makes you happy and what you think is your best work and don't think, well, it's got a follow a formula or whatever. It's hard to say that after doing TSA because it does help having structure, but if you write to try and please others, you'll not do your best work.

Just go with what you feel is your best and something you're passionate about. And I think that's the way I would do it. Uh, if I turned the clock back, I would do it that way.

BECKY BOYLAND: I love that so much because we can very easily get caught up in, "I need to sound like this person, or I need to sound like that person, or, I wanna do sync, so it's always gotta be this," and at the end of the day, what people are connecting to in music is the heart. And if you are so far away from what you're passionate about, your heart won't be in it, and there's nothing for them to latch onto unless you just have an incredible hook, you know, and, and even those things feel a little bit empty and hollow over time if they're not supported by that. And chances are, if you love it, there are seven, 8 billion people on the planet.

Somebody else is gonna love it too.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, if you have a hundred or a thousand people that just love everything that you do, I think that what a massive honor of that is to have that, that people invest that time in you and support you and really want that, and it's made a difference to their lives.

Uh, even a small number of people. If you make a difference to someone's life by, by doing what you do, by doing just something that you would do anyway because it's something that you wanna say, you feel something, uh, enough to write it, and a lot people connect with it, what an honor that is. It's, it's, uh, it's amazing.

BECKY BOYLAND: Absolutely. 'Cause those are real people behind those numbers, whether it's streaming numbers or however it is that you're able to interact with people or doing live performance locally as well, and it is such a powerful thing and it can get lost a little bit when we think, oh, I have to have this audience of millions, and not everybody can, and not everybody has to.

It's still, these are real people and it's a very powerful thing to make that connection and, and so we should be very, very grateful and mindful of that because you're right, that is such a powerful and beautiful thing.

STEVEN MCDONALD: I had one person contacted me after a gig I was playing last night. And, uh, there was a, there was one song I played that was a new song, and, uh, and someone from the audience messaged me to say that the words in the chorus moved them because they could imagine where they were when in, in from the words of the song, uh, 'cause it was about a specific place, but also just a connection between a, a parent and a child. And it was, uh, something that moved them and it moved them enough to send me a message about it, which was lovely. So, that felt really good. Really good to get that message today.

So...

BECKY BOYLAND: That's amazing. That's awesome.

CONCLUSION AND HOW TO SUPPORT

BECKY BOYLAND: Well, how can people support you and keep up with what you're doing and tell them a little bit more about the this album.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Sure. Well, um, the album, not everybody is local to, to buy their... I guess, quite expensive to, to have something imported, I guess, from overseas. But if they are in the UK or, or if they don't mind the cost, they can buy the album as a physical copy through Last Night from Glasgow, the record shop and, you can find that online. In the meantime, people that like to stream music, it's, uh, on all the usual platforms. Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon. All the, all the other ones. I never get too far beyond that because I can never, uh, Tidal, I, I, I know there's an aggregator who, uh, posts them on about 50 different sites, but I don't know what everyone uses.

So the ones that I look at tend to be Apple Music, Spotify, and sometimes Amazon, uh, but on YouTube and things like that. So they can hear the music on those sites. In terms of finding me on socials, uh, I'm on Facebook under Steven McDonald songwriter, and on Instagram it's under Tallboy Performing Arts because I, uh, I also do some acting.

So I've got this performing arts handle, which I've, I've had for years so if there are Instagram users, they can find me under, under that. Um, I've got something on TikTok, but I don't really use it very often, to be honest. Um, so, so, so they're, the main ones are YouTube, the, they can find videos and things like that on YouTube as well.

BECKY BOYLAND: And I'll have everything in the show notes so that everyone can keep up and go directly to these, all these different places that we all have to maintain, which is, which is a challenge. But I'm grateful for single links and things that we can combine.

This has been just so wonderful and I'm so excited about your new album and all these wonderful things that are, that are happening and all the music that you have, not only that you've released, but that you have on the horizon, and I'm just so glad that you were on Second Verse.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Well, thank you, Becky. It's a, it is, it is an absolute pleasure to be here. I really appreciate that, that you asked me on. Uh, I really enjoyed it.

BECKY BOYLAND: Awesome. Thank you so much.

STEVEN MCDONALD: Thank you too. Much appreciated.

CODA

BECKY BOYLAND: I loved my conversation with Steve. His authenticity, his dedication, and his commitment to doing the music he loves really shine.

Here are a few big takeaways that stood out.

First, creative growth takes time and repetition. Steve's not afraid to rewrite songs, rehearse relentlessly, and refine his live performance until it connects.

Next, stability fuels creativity. He didn't walk away from law overnight. He scaled it back to make space for music that allowed him to invest in himself without unnecessary pressure.

And then, community matters. From local radio to global friendships, Steve's building a support system one show, one story, and one listener at a time.

If you're an artist juggling a day job and dreaming of more, here's your action item. Decide what "making space" looks like for you. Maybe it's reducing work hours, batch recording in off seasons, or simply giving yourself permission to be more than one thing. Your art doesn't need to be all or nothing. It needs to be true.

And if you're building your brand as an artist, remember, clarity attracts a strong message and authentic online presence help you find your people faster. If you need help building that clarity, head to attitudecreativity.com and let's connect.

Please follow, rate and review Second verse. That simple act helps indie artists like Steve — and this podcast — reach more listeners.

Now to close out the show, here's Steven McDonald with his song, "Songs About Love."

FEATURED SONG: "SONGS ABOUT LOVE" BY STEVEN MCDONALD