Jesse Sterling Harrison on Building an “Always On” Creative Process in His Second Verse

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I have a whole thing about music needing to be fun.

I mean, I'm pretty much like this about everything.

If it's not fun, why do it?

And sometimes I write stuff that's hard to play, it's hard to perform, and if I'm in

the studio trying to track that, if I'm on take six or whatever and I'm starting to

get annoyed, then it's time to walk away.

Lunch break time, coffee break time, whatever.

Because if it starts to feel like work, that's not the vibe I'm going

for, and I definitely don't want that going down on tape, that bad attitude.

I want the attitude to be like, "Yeah, I'm psyched.

I'm so happy to be doing this.

I'm enjoying myself.

I'm passionate about it." I don't want it to be like, "Oh, don't screw up the

third verse like you did last time."

Welcome back to Second Verse, the podcast for indie artists

reclaiming their dream to write songs again… any time, anywhere.

Today's guest writes music wherever ideas come… in his work truck, on the tractor,

in airport terminals—and, if you check the bathroom mirror at his house, in soap.

Jesse Sterling Harrison is a longtime songwriter, recording artist, and author,

and his archival solo acoustic album, Catch and Release Program, is out now

on Brave Tiger Records, which is the curated label run by Joshua David Thayer.

Josh joined me back in Season 2, Episode 10.

Jesse and Josh go way back—making music for decades—and now Josh's

a proper release, after years of only being passed around among friends.

Jesse was making up songs before he even knew that's what he was doing—four or five

years old, noodling on the family piano.

Then came punk shows and bands, and then parenthood and a long stretch

where providing for the family came first and the music got sidelined.

Little by little, he found his way back.

Now, as a fairly new empty nester, he says he's never had as much

fun creating as he has in his 50s.

In this conversation, we talk about building a creative process that's

"bulletproof" no matter the distractions.

We get into writing an entire album on an online drum machine, sorting

a wide-ranging catalog into projects people can actually picture, and the

humbling night at a party jam that made Jesse promise himself he'd never let

his guitar chops slip that far again.

Stick around to the end, because we'll close out with a song from Jesse.

And now, here's my conversation with Jesse Sterling Harrison.

Welcome, Jesse.

Thank you so much for being on Second Verse

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Hey, thanks for having me on.

I love to talk to so many different artists and

just go back to the beginning.

When did you first fall in love with music?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Wow.

I started taking piano lessons when I was eight, which was

a mandate from my parents.

Uh, but I remember writing songs.

Didn't know I was writing songs, but I remember writing songs starting at, as

early as I can remember, four or five.

You know, I was making up stuff and singing it, and then there was always

a piano in the house, so I would noodle around on that and ended up, you

know, creating little melodies when I was really little that I would play.

So it's kind of, it's kind of been in my blood from the, the very beginning.

They must have been like, "Wow, what is going on with

this kid? That, that sounds so great."

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah.

Well, you know, there was music, um, a lot on my mom's side of the family.

Three of her brothers are very accomplished musicians, and my dad

played in a band, probably one of the first working rock bands, uh,

out on Long Island in the early '60s.

So, uh, yeah, so we-- And the rest of his family was not very musical, but he was

the, uh, he was the weirdo who wanted to be a guitar player instead of an attorney.

I think that's a good choice.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I mean, you can be both.

I know a couple people that do both, but, uh, yeah, I would, I would only

be able to take the music track.

the lawyer track isn't me at all.

And there's so many really, uh, actually who do have,

you know, multiple things going on, multiple careers and passions, and

so you're, you're totally right.

There, there's no reason why you can't do multiple things.

But it always seems like the music ends up on the side, and that for you seems

like that was the, the same trajectory.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Right.

Well, I think there was a, there was an inflection point in my 20s, and I

don't think I realized it at the time, but when I chose to have a child,

uh, that was a huge turning point.

And after that, the music got completely sidelined for a few years, and,

uh, and I re- I really missed it.

And part of it was the life balance wasn't really in place yet.

I hadn't figured out how to do multiple things, uh, because obviously parenting

can be so consuming and, uh, you know, and, and I, I did not have a stable

partner relationship either at that time.

So that made it very hard to pursue a- anything but just making

money and taking care of the baby.

Yeah, and that seems to be just such a recurring

theme too, that we're, we're told, you know, "Go get a real job…

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: right

and, and have the music on the side." And obviously a lot of times

that's conventional wisdom that actually bears out in, in life, and at the same

time we haven't really done a good job of supporting artists so that that doesn't

have to be a big decision that we make.

But that's where that second chapter comes along.

And so when did things start to shift so that you realized, "This is

something I actually can pursue and, and be creative in this way again and

make this a, a core part of my life"?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Right.

When I was 30 or so, I got divorced, and so that, uh, that was another turning

point because suddenly I, not only did I not have a partner who was trying

to stop me from playing, you know, who wanted to be home with the baby all the

time, uh, that was a, a tension point.

But then also suddenly my kids were splitting time between two households.

So suddenly I'm, I'm hanging around on a Thursday night, and the kids

are at their mom's house, and I'm like, "Hey, I can pick up the guitar.

I can start working again." And so that, that started in a limited way,

and then eventually I became fairly recently an empty nester and, uh, you

know, with my business a little more established and things being just a

little bit less chaotic, and, uh, that was when I noticed, like, the whole

flow of ideas changed, and I realized I was just writing all the time.

You know, even on the tractor for my lawn care business, I'm writing music.

And yeah, or, or short story ideas or whatever.

And so the, uh, yeah, I've, I've never had as, as much fun creating

as I have in my 50s, actually.

Oh, that's so much fun.

And it is really interesting because that sometimes just freeing up the mind

allows you to do all these things that are not so much multitasking, but having

that passion start to flow through other things that we're doing in life.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: For sure.

And I, I think a thing that I've seen is that my creative process is

a lot more stable than it used to be.

Uh, it's sort of always on and so, you know, like you, you hear

a lot like, "I need a perfectly quiet room to get on my keyboard

and write something," or whatever.

Um, but I, I've been used to doing this with multiple people popping

their heads in saying, you know, "Dad, where's the so and so?"

Or, "I need a ride to the whatever." And, you know, full house with

animals and a lot of stuff going on.

You know, how many of my home studio recordings have a dog barking

in the background, for example.

Uh, and so I, I got pretty good at just finding little moments to, to work

on a piece or to at least originate something and record a, a quick idea

into my phone or something, and then come back to it later when I have

a little more time to flesh it out.

So yeah, so that made the creative process is bulletproof at this point.

You know, almost anything can be going on in the background,

and I'm still gonna do it.

I love that example because just having that consistency,

but also fostering almost a microenvironment within the greater crazy

environment is really, really great.

Did you find that your kids also started to maybe see how creativity could be

something that, that they would pursue and that they could also squeeze it in

and make it valuable in the midst of all the other things going on in life?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I, I hope so.

I mean, I have, I have two biological kids and five stepkids.

And so the, uh, you know, the genetic background of everyone is really

different, and the natural talents of everyone go in all different directions.

Uh, my two bio kids, uh, one is a very accomplished actor, and one

is a very accomplished singer.

Uh, neither of them do it as a full-time job, uh, but I

think they're good enough to.

Uh, but, uh, yeah, I definitely, I definitely see them, uh, you know,

pursuing that stuff even though it isn't necessarily for work yet.

That's really awesome though, and that's quite a full

house that it sounds like you had.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, yeah.

Well, we never had all seven at home at the same time, well, living.

We had them all there at the same time for holidays, events, et cetera.

But yeah, we did have… I think I had up to eight people living, yeah,

living under one roof at certain points, you know, multi- multi-generational,

always a party and, and always a few animals in there as well.

That's awesome and, and pretty wild.

That, that's pretty great.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, yeah.

So what does your creative process look like now?

What kind of projects are you working on, and what does, what does music

look like now that you do have a little bit more of that space?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Right.

Well, you know, part of it is, uh, as a musician, I'm a major gearhead, so I'm

always trying to acquire more stuff.

Uh, I have a little home studio, which is basically in the

utility room of my basement.

And so the main drain, uh, is this big pipe that runs right

past the, uh, the mixing board.

And, uh, we have this conversation pretty regularly like, like, "Uh, honey,

I gotta turn the boiler off 'cause I'm tracking a vocal, and I can't have, I

can't have the boiler kick on with an open mic." And, and I always joke she

thinks the house will immediately drop 30 degrees if, if I turn the boiler off.

And, you know, it takes at least a half hour, so I have time to

track a vocal without anyone, uh, having to put more layers on.

What does the process look like?

Like I said, it's, it's on all the time.

It's like I'm, I'm writing in the shower, I'm writing driving the truck.

Um, sometimes even in my sleep.

I've had a couple of short story ideas that basically came fully formed in

a dream, and I would wake up and just write this incoherent scribble down,

and then the next morning I wake up and, "The heck's this? Oh, yeah, I remember

that. I should write that," you know?

Um, and the interesting thing I've found is that the music stuff I

hear in my dreams almost never comes through to the waking world.

You know, I'll hear some amazing riff or guitar riff or something or a groove in

my sleep, and then I wake up and I'm like, "That's ridiculous. I'm never gonna work

with that." You know, it sounds terrible, but it sounded awesome when I was asleep.

Um, yeah, the narrative ideas, you know, the prose ideas tend to come

through better for some reason.

But it does give you, of course, that, probably that extra

creative juice, even if it was totally weird, and maybe new creative ways to do

things that, that you hadn't tried before.

But for me, I, I very rarely remember my dreams, but, um, but

I always have something at the ready just in case that happens.

But that doesn't, it doesn't really happen for me.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Part of the cool thing about our household

now is just me and my wife, and she's a very accomplished writer.

And, uh, and so we're always bouncing, uh, prose ideas off of each other.

She also writes poetry.

And so if you go into the master bathroom, there's all this stuff scribbled on the

mirror with soap because that's the, uh, that's the medium we have access to.

If you're stepping out of the shower like, "Oh, I have a great idea for for

such and such," and it'll be something really cryptic like, uh, timpani.

You know, I had an idea like, "Oh, I'll put timpani on this track or

something," or, uh, you know, the name of a, a song title or, or some

such or just a smidgen of lyrics.

Yeah, so there's all this stuff scribbled on the mirror in soap, and

sometimes I come back and be like, "What was that again? I don't remember."

Um, and other times it's like, "Oh, that was a good idea.

I'm gonna work with that."

And that's such a great reminder to anybody who's

trying to capture those ideas.

Don't, don't forget to at least try to capture something, although it is

funny if we don't, if we don't follow it quite far enough, it will totally become

something else later down the road.

But, but you never know, 'cause I, I have a song that I think it languished

in my voice memos for about three or four years before I actually had the

skill to do with it what I wanted, and then it became one of my favorite songs.

So…

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: nice

hang on to everything.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I, I had that come up recently because I, I-- since I've

been working with, uh, with Brave Tiger, uh, Josh, who's the owner of the label,

and I lived together years and years ago and, and did a bunch of musical projects.

And there was actually a song that was like a B-side to a record I was

working on at the time that we co-wrote and that I forgot about for years,

and it didn't quite make the cut.

And I dragged out that-- It just came back to me.

I dragged out a 12-string and started remembering what the chords were, and

I'm like, "Oh, I can sing this now." I couldn't sing it when I was 23, um, but

now I think I can carry off the vocal.

And, and of course, in remembering it, I changed it, and now it's an

almost a completely different song.

But I mean, that was around for about 20 years before anything,

anything was really done with it.

Yeah, you never know when you have that gold, and sometimes

it's just reimagining something that you've already had, and I think one of

the really cool things too is going back to your catalog and hearing things that

you're like, "Oh, did I write this? Is this my, is this my, is this my song?"

Like, wow.

So those moments of inspiration and just capturing all those things, which I think

is kind of a thread of what we're talking about today, that keeping, keeping hold

of those things, and it doesn't mean that everything that you make has to become a

full-fledged song, but everything has a touchpoint that leads to the next thing.

But you also can go back and find really good stuff, so it's worth

cataloging and hanging onto stuff.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah.

Yeah, and I think the, if the creative process expands, that's a good thing

because when I first started writing, uh, all of my song ideas came from

me noodling around on the guitar.

That was the only way I wrote, and I wrote a lot that way, but that

was the only way that, you know, that songs be- became, reality.

Nothing got out of my subconscious without that guitar in my hand.

And now, you know, sometimes it's a vocal, sometimes it's a beat, uh, and, and that

can come anytime, anywhere, whether I have an instrument in front of me or not.

And with the beauty of technology, I can record those little ideas.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I love having new tools and things to record, especially now

there are even some tools that will help you figure out a progression

without having to necessarily use AI.

And I love having those kinds of concepts, or I, I have a couple

of different apps where I can, you know, put in a chord progression.

So if I'm in a place where I don't have my guitar, if I'm at the airport or at

a cafe, I can start crafting things and even lay out melodies without having to

sing in a crowded public place, but…

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, yeah

there are lots of different ways to kinda capture stuff, and it's,

whether it's old school, whether it's just handwriting or keeping a recording,

that's something that has been tools for, for people, for artists for so

long, and is a really important part of keeping all of that active and keeping

your mind focused like you're doing.

And, um, so I highly encourage, dear listener, make sure you

have a way to capture your audio.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and, and, uh, you know, always be open to, uh, new tools.

Like, a thing that happened to me was I discovered this… It's an

online drum machine called Drumbit, and, uh, it has, uh, you can adjust

the pitch of each piece of the kit.

You know, there are various kits, and by adjusting these pitches, there are

also sound effects and things that are included with the different kits.

And by adjusting the pitch, you can create little melodies, you know,

out of something that might be, uh, supposed to be a rack tom or something.

But if you slow it way down, now it's actually a bass.

You know, now you're getting a pitched bass tone.

And so I started screwing around with this drum machine, and I actually

wrote about a dozen songs on, on drum machine, which I'd never done before.

Uh, you know, I'd get, I'd get a little melodic riff with, with a

beat, and I'd think, "Wow, that could be a whole song." And then I'd base

something off of that, add guitar to it.

And so that, you know, with that, with that Drumbit website, I was actually

writing at the airport, you know, waiting for an airplane, things like that, and

just trying to create these weird grooves.

And a whole album came out of that.

You know, that was the, uh, the first Mystic Warrior album

that I did was, was wr- written almost entirely on drum machine.

Oh, wow.

And that has to be really inspiring when you're trying something that's

completely out of your wheelhouse, especially as a guitarist, and is

just totally different and unique.

And I love both trying new tools and also seeing how other people start, how they

write, because I got into a particular system of doing things, especially

as a guitarist myself, and there was a pretty ordinary routine, and just

seeing what other people were doing, and if somebody was starting with lyrics

or starting with a melody or starting with a progression or, or whatever.

And so now I approach music and my compositions in all of

those ways at different times.

And it's, it's really nice because, you know, it makes, it makes songs

that can still have some cohesion 'cause it's me, but also there's a

different vibe when you're starting from a different point, and I think

that's just so great for our creativity.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, for sure.

Yeah, for me, the problem has been the opposite problem, which is how do I

make all this stuff cohere in some way?

Um, right, like it's still me, sure, like maybe the only thing that ties the songs

together is, is that I'm singing them.

Uh, but yeah, the idea, and, you know, and so what I've been trying

to do is kind of create different bins for different projects.

Like I- I'm working on a heavier project, and the stuff for that does not fit in

with anything else that I've been doing.

So, you know, if I, if I write something that sounds like Megadeth

wrote it, that needs to go over here with this project 'cause it's not

fitting on one of my folk albums.

Uh, so yeah, so just, just making stuff sound like it makes sense, like a set

of songs that make sense together, yeah, that's been my challenge.

Yeah, and even if, if it's just creating artistic buckets

for things, and I, I've done that both with different artist monikers and

also just by sort of keeping projects a little bit closer together, and

I'm in the process of fleshing that out in a few different directions.

But it was a challenge at first of how much of this

stuff do I wanna separate out?

Do I wanna put it under a different name?

Is it that different?

And do I wanna buy another domain name?

And all of those kinds of things.

But it, it does help to make sense when you wanna aim them

in certain directions and have different purposes in mind for them.

But I love the idea, and was talking with a recent guest about when you have

a more overall idea of a particular project, then you can keep that cohesion.

The instrumentation is probably very similar.

A lot of those things kinda stay together, and when you have a story that goes

through all of those, then that, that sorta ties them together a bit more,

and then you can take your listener on a journey with that, that bundle,

you know, that entire album of songs.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh for sure.

But there's no reason why you can't then do something different

in the next project and, and just, just have fun with it because we do have so

many of these different interests, and the, the genre police have really kind

of gone off to the side because we can do so much more of combinations because

that's just what people are, are getting accustomed to hearing because of how

music has been delivered and opened up and, and in some ways freed, and, um,

in other ways that's more challenging.

But it, it means that we're not just stuck going straight down the middle of the

lane anymore, and I think that's great because I've had a lot of, a, a lot of

times where I'm like, "What is my genre?" And, um, so, you know, I think everybody

has that same question now as an artist.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Right.

Well, I do find if, you know, if we, if we don't wanna do

this purely as a hobby, right?

Like, if there is some sort of a profit motive, at least wanting to pay for

yourself, because if you're going to play live these days, y- you don't

wanna spend gas money to drive two hours away and not make your money back.

Uh, you know, that-- you don't want, you don't wanna be

taking a hit to do your art.

You'd, you'd at least like it to s- somewhat compensate itself.

And, uh, and to do that, you need to be able to kind of give people an elevator

pitch about what the heck you do.

So, you know, that's, uh, that's been a challenge for me, and something I didn't

think about much as a younger musician.

And so now I, I can say, "Well, I do a singer-songwriter thing,"

and everybody knows what that is.

You know, they know it's gonna be somebody up there with an acoustic guitar, most

likely, probably singing something that's fairly melodic, that tells a story.

And that's cool because that's what I do in my singer-songwriter persona,

and people can think of artists they like that do that, and so

they have some idea what to expect.

Uh, you know, I don't need to throw weird word-- Like, "Oh, it's po- it's

post-punk." Well, what the heck is that?

You know?

It c- it could be, could be a lot of things.

Uh, so I'm doing that, and then my other project is, like, a metal project.

And then a third thing that's mostly just conceptual at this point will be more in

the blues and soul category, uh, which is, again, it's an easier ele- elevator pitch

to make than, well, it's a diverse concept album that ties different genres together.

People can't-- They can't envision that.

It's harder to pitch.

Right, exactly.

So we do have to find at least some definition that we can allow people

to hang their hats on, and then we can play around within that.

And, and I think that's fair.

I think that that's something that is not unexpected at this point because of,

again, how, what people are listening to.

But yeah, it's, it's nice to have that at least a little bit of a touchpoint

so they're not like, "Wow, what?" "And we're gonna pay you to come do this thing?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah,

So.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah, and for real, an-another challenge I

think for independent musicians is the pro sports problem.

Like, if you're practicing your sport every day, you're gonna get

better much quicker than someone who just does it as a hobby.

Uh, you know, if you're on a team and you're sponsored, et, et cetera.

Um, and so for, uh, for a smaller-time or independent act, you wanna be

as well-rehearsed as the, the best pros you would go to see live, and

you wanna be able to put on a show like the best of the best, and it's

hard to do when you have a day job.

It's, you know, not impossible, but it's much more challenging.

Yeah, just being consistent and being able to put that work in.

Exactly, and consistency really is that, that important

thing that so often, especially as independent artists, we love to make

the music, and we love to think about making the music, and we love to

talk about how we wanna make music.

And if we tabulate how much we're actually making music, that a lot of

times can be where things fall down, and it's because we tend to think,

"I, I don't have three hours today," or, "I don't have this or that."

And if we start with just simple, like sit down for 15 minutes, you know that

15 minutes is gonna turn into a half an hour, and so on and so forth, but it is

just enough where you have no reason to not do it, and it's not overwhelming, and

it's something then that is repeatable.

But those reps over time, just like with the pros, those reps really do add

up, and they also really do improve the mind game, and what you were talking

about at the beginning of always having that creative muscle going, that, that

mental process of the music is carrying over from the physical practice.

And we don't tend to think about that.

We- we're like, "Oh, that must be some woo thing," and it's really not.

It's just actually ruminating on the stuff that you've been working on, and the work

keeps happening in the mind because the mind is taking what the hands have done

and what the ears have heard and is just working all that out and improving us.

So if we get too much space between our time in the studio, then that

stuff doesn't happen either, and that's where you go back and sit down

and, and look at your equipment and go, "I don't know where to start."

And that's, that's a bad situation.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah, I always, uh, I found in the past because life

would get in the way and I wouldn't pick up a guitar for some period of time,

you know, weeks or months in some cases.

And then when I get back to it, I'd find it would, it would always

take me about two weeks to get back to wherever I'd left off.

And, uh, yeah, I had, I had an interesting experience when I hadn't played for

a while and I was starting a new project trying to get a band together.

And I did get a band together, and I was 100% the worst member of that

band for a while even, even though we were playing my material because

I had to sing, play, and teach my players the song at the same time.

So I sounded like a total hack because I was, I was multitasking and at

the same time, uh, rehearsing my own material and trying to get up to speed.

And so I got this brilliant bass player, this brilliant drummer just

blazing away, and I'm, I'm up there just trying to-- struggling to keep up.

Like, boy, I just wanna be as good as, as these guys, even

though I wrote this stuff.

Uh, yeah, that ramp-up period.

And that has gotten shorter as I've gotten older, I think, because

I keep going back to material I've played live a million times.

So even if it's, even if it's been a, a bit of a hiatus, like, boy,

I really know this material 'cause I've done it so much, it doesn't take

very much to, to access it again.

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Talk about how you come up with your lyrics and the topics for your music

and where your, where your stories are coming from and a little bit deeper into

the creative process looks like for you.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: The lyric writing for me is something

I did before I actually sang.

Uh, I was in a band in high school where I, I played-- I wrote a lot of the

material on guitar, but I didn't sing yet.

And so I was writing lyrics for the singer of the band.

Um, and they were cheesy and terrible because I was 16.

Not that a 16-year-old can't write good lyrics.

I've seen it happen.

Um, I was not that 16-year-old.

Uh, so I, I started out as a, as a bad lyric writer, and then you would hear

someone else sing the stuff and think, "Ooh, I-- that doesn't sound as good as I

thought it would." Uh, um, and then, uh, then I started to sing for another band,

and that was a very different experience.

And so what I found was I'm always doing music first.

It's, it's very rare for me to start with a lyric and write music to it.

I feel like I could do it if someone hired me, but I, I just never do it that way.

So for me, it's when I get some kind of a musical hook, I'm asking myself,

"Well, what does that remind me of?"

You know, where's that taking me emotionally or in my history?

And sometimes it doesn't take me to myself at all.

Sometimes it's just a story, you know, or a word or something,

and it grows from there.

Uh, but it always starts with the music making me feel

something or think of something.

And if it doesn't, then I put that piece of music away and try something else.

You know, if it doesn't evoke anything, then it's, it's-- excuse me, then it's

either not time for that piece yet or that's, you know, maybe a piece that

isn't going to develop from there.

It was just an idea that, that'll fall by the wayside.

That's really interesting to me because it's not how I have

probably written a lot of my music, and more recently I've gotten more

in- into the music part of it.

But if I'm trying to figure out a melody over the music, then I'll just

start sometimes singing, you know, gobbledygook and see what happens.

But as you were sharing that, it reminded me of a time when I was

in a co-write, and I had started a track that we could write to.

I think I literally named it something like Another Stupid Idea

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah.

Because I didn't think there was anything to it

at all, and I was not feeling it.

And I played it for my co-writer, and he's like, "Oh, I can see this,

and I can hear this, and I can feel th-," and I'm just like, "You can?"

Because it just did not, it was not connecting for me at all.

And so it was really funny because I just, I didn't, I didn't even know what to do

with it, and he was, he was experiencing it and feeling it in a very different way

than, than I was because I just didn't have… I kinda needed to have a concept

outside of it before I got into it.

But that's what's so fun about the way that, that people write and

naturally connect with, with the music, and I love hearing all the

different ways that people do it.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: In college I was in a band, and I had no idea … And

generally in schools the, like, the good musicians usually form a band, because

there's probably only four or five of them at most anyway, and those people are like,

"Oh, who, who's, who's okay on drums? Oh, Jim, you're a good drummer, join us."

And, and that's how it goes.

And I didn't know how lucky I was to be playing with these particular

guys, because boy were they good.

And not only were they good, but there were two other band members who were

contributing ideas for original songs.

And so we had a three-way writer's room in this band, and some of the s- some of the

ways that stuff came to be, w- there were some pretty funny song origin stories.

And one of them was that we were making fun of, uh, ska metal bands.

There were a lot of them at that time, and people thought

that, that we were one of them.

We didn't think so.

Um, so I was making fun of the ska metal bands, and I was saying,

"Oh, they probably think we're gonna play something like this."

And so I played this silly riff on, on guitar, and kind

of everyone's ears perked up.

They were like, uh, "Yeah, what, what would we play next after that?" So I

played this kind of metal riff, and they're like, "Oh, is, is there a bridge

to that?" And s- so this, this musical joke became a song in our set that

we, that we worked out and developed.

I literally wrote as a joke without thinking about it, and the, uh, the

band members thought it was cool enough that it became a, a track, and I've

always thought that was hilarious.

Oh, that's awesome.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah.

so was the audience in on the joke later?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah, in a sense, I mean, it was a very silly

song, but it was a silly heavy song, so it kind of had that groove.

Uh, so yeah, and that happens a lot, I think, with guitar players specifically.

We're just noodling around.

You might be watching TV or something.

Uh, you, you just pick up a guitar to see if it's in tune, and suddenly you

wrote the best riff you ever wrote.

Yeah.

Yeah

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Because there's no pressure.

You didn't even know you were doing it.

What do you have coming up and what are your projects that

you're… I know you talked about the acoustic and the metal and, and the blues.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah

What are your, some of your performance projects?

What's on the horizon for you?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: The record that we just re-released,

Josh, Josh Thayer from Brave Tiger has such a way with words.

He, he said, "We're going to release your archival acoustic project." And I thought,

"Wow, that's a, that's a great term.

I think is what we figured out, and then it basically just got passed around

to a few friends, and that was it.

But it, it feels like it holds up.

So we released that album on Brave Tiger as a re-release, you know, remastered,

cleaned up, uh, and I'm, I'm trying to play some shows to promote that now.

Then there's also, under the Mystic Warrior moniker, as you said, there's

a project that I think of as a mixtape.

Uh, it's mostly very, very short songs that sound radically different.

And, uh, that came from the, you know, the mixtapes that my friends

and I would pass back and forth in the '90s on cassette that often

would be songs from 30 different artists, all in different genres.

You know, it would go from a, a stand-up comedy bit to a death

metal song to a punk song to a blues song to whatever, and that's how we

learned a, a lot of different artists.

And so I'm trying to do a, a project a little bit like that where the pieces

all flow into one another, and it's called 12 Songs in 20 Minutes, uh,

which is literally what it should be.

Um, and you know, and then so people will be left with this, this, yeah,

this mass of short songs all crammed together with little skits and pieces

of connective tissue between them.

That is awesome.

I love that idea, and I love, the fact that you have, well, you're creating new

material, but you also are, are bringing back these, uh, this other material.

What was the format that this was all recorded in?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: It was all recorded, on the,

the DAW in my home studio.

Um, I had a, a drummer work on a few tracks with me, and

everything else I played myself.

And there's probably two or three tracks that are not quite done that I

need to mess with a little bit more.

Uh, and I think we only have 11 out of the 12 songs recorded, and I don't know

what the 12th, 12th song is going to be, so I might need to write one more.

Um, but, uh, yeah, the stuff i-in a weird way kinda held together even though each

song is very different stylistically.

Um, as far as releasing it, I thought, "Well, geez, I have to just make a

cassette," but I don't know if anyone actually wants to own a cassette.

I have to do some market research on that.

They are making a comeback.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I-I've heard that.

I'm not sure that's reflected in my, in my cohort.

You know, with vinyl coming back, I, I think it kind of went through

my head at one point, like, "Oh, are they gonna bring back tapes, too?" And,

and then I was like, "Oh, well, I'll be.

They did.

They did bring back tapes." They're still harder to get, but,

there's a good place for nostalgia.

I really, I really get it.

I understand that, that nostalgia.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh for sure.

So the acoustic pieces though, the archival, is this r- i-

is this re-performed or are these pieces that were previously recorded

and, and, and just remastered?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Just remastered.

idea what equipment we were using.

That would be, uh… Yeah, I was, I was so focused on the performances, but the

cool thing about it was I was playing those songs live around town quite a bit,

so I was pretty well-rehearsed, and it wasn't too difficult to just, you know,

get a set of what, my 12 best songs or whatever, uh, just get down there in the,

I was gonna say in the studio, but in the, literally in the living room, with

just my, my engineer just pressing record.

And, uh, yeah, I think we ripped through all that stuff in about a

day and a half and got good takes of everything, and, and just printed it to

CD-ROMs, and that was, that was that.

So yeah, the cool thing was going back and thinking it still sounded pretty

decent a- and might be worth revisiting.

Absolutely.

And it's, it's really interesting too, because we have gotten so used to with

the DAW going back and doing way too many takes on things, and it's, it's nice

to have more of that live performance mindset because it doesn't mean you can't

go back and fix some things that need to be fixed, but I, I've played a lot live,

but I did, like many people, sort of went down the rabbit trail when I first started

recording, and now I've really dialed that back and think more like a live performer.

So I'm not doing 20 takes of anything.

I'm maybe doing th- three or four, and then going back and doing

doubles and all that kind of stuff.

But it just really makes it come alive so much better.

And, and it, it's just not nearly as overwhelming.

So that's, that's really cool to revisit what you've, what you've done, and also

remember what that recording process was like, and I imagine that that continues

to inform, and your live performance continues to inform how you record now.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, for sure.

And it's, uh, you know, I have a whole thing about music needing to be fun.

If it's-- I mean, I'm pretty much like this about everything.

If it's not fun, why do it?

Uh, and so I do find… And sometimes I write stuff that's hard to play, it's

hard to perform, and if I'm in the studio trying to track that, if I'm on take

six or whatever and I'm starting to get annoyed, then it's time to walk away.

You know, that's lunch break time, coffee break time, whatever.

Uh, because if it starts to feel like work, that's not the vibe I'm going for,

and I definitely don't want that going down on tape, you know, that bad attitude.

I want the attitude to be like, "Yeah, I'm psyched.

I'm so happy to be doing this.

This is, you know, I'm enjoying myself.

I'm passionate about it." Uh, I don't want it to be like, "Oh, don't screw

up the third verse like you did last time." So yeah, that's, uh… Yeah,

I'm adamant that I, I try really hard to track stuff in one complete take

rather than having to splice stuff in.

Um, and try not to do too many takes.

The only exception to that would be an improvised guitar solo, where I

will do that 27 times and pick the best one, uh, because most of them

are gonna be crap if I'm improvving.

That's such a great insight, and I love that

attitude too of if this isn't fun,

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Thank you.

then what's the point, right?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, yeah.

So for someone who loved music and either, you know, life went a

different way and now they're thinking, "I don't know, is it too late for me? Should

I even bother?" What would be your advice?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Oh, wow.

Um, what's the motivator?

Where is the passion coming from?

You know, what makes you wanna get back and do it?

And try to tap into that.

Um, a thing that happened to me was when I had young children, and I had

a, a t- horrible full-time plus job, I was always at work or changing diapers.

That was my life.

And I got invited to this party where theoretically there's gonna

be a jam session, and I went to the party, I brought a guitar, um,

but I hadn't played in a while.

I'd, I'd never touched a guitar for weeks and weeks and weeks.

And so now I'm at this party where these people are jamming, and they

were playing a Carlos Santana song, and it's really simple, and I, and I didn't

like it then, and I don't like it now.

Uh, it's a, it's a really annoying song, um, but not difficult to play.

And I got up there, and I was a total hack, and I, I made a, a hash of it.

It sounded awful.

And, and these players, who were not terribly serious players, were

just blowing me off the stage.

And, and I was mad.

I was like, "Man, I'm supposed to be good.

I used to be good at this." And it, it hurt me that I had lost that,

and I said, "I can't ever get this bad o- on an instrument again.

Like, the next time I pick up a guitar, I'm gonna be somewhere near where I used

to be." And, uh, yeah, so I guess, I guess the embarrassment played a role,

just getting up there and being bad.

Like I don't wanna be bad at anything, but especially not at this.

And so I have to make room in my life because this is so important to me.

I can't, I can't suck as, as a guitar player ever again.

So that was a huge motivator for me.

Yeah.

And, you know, for someone else it might be about, uh, being

in front of people on stage.

It could be about being in the studio tracking your stuff.

But, like, you know, find the, find the passion, find the joy, and, and

work out from there would be my advice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's never too late.

It's always a good time to come back to your music, especially

if it fulfills you and, and gives you joy, because there are so many

different ways to, to define success

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Yeah, and for sure.

I mean, one of my favorite, uh, one of my favorite independent recording artists is

a, a buddy of mine out of Syracuse who he got into the music scene doing, uh, doing

underground zines and then booking shows.

And, and through that, he met all the bands, and he went to see all

the bands, and finally, I guess in his late teens, early 20s, said,

"I'm gonna pick up an instrument," and he became absolutely brilliant.

You know, br- really, uh, because he understood the music before

he could physically play it.

You know, he had that grasp of what the bands were doing and

what the aesthetic was, and then he added his technique to that.

And, uh, you know, it became one of my, one of my favorite, uh, favorite

regional acts, favorite recording acts.

That's awesome.

So, how can people find you, and where are you on all the places

so they can find your music and keep up with, what you're doing?

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: Sweet.

Uh, thanks for asking.

So, you know, easy portal is to go check out Brave Tiger Records online.

That'll take you straight to the archival acoustic album, which is

called Catch and Release Program.

Really proud of that.

And then you can look up Jesse Sterling Harrison on Bandcamp.

That'll take you to a bunch of my releases, and there are a bunch.

I'm still adding more, getting everything slid over there, uh, so

people can access all my stuff there.

Awesome.

And I'll have everything in the show notes so that they can find that there.

And this has been a great conversation.

Thank you so much for being on Second Verse.

JESSE STERLING HARRISON: I appreciate it very much.

It's great to be here.

I bet you really resonated with this conversation.

And here are a few moments from Jesse that are going to stay with me.

First, that "bulletproof" creative process.

Jesse didn't wait for a perfectly quiet room.

He learned to work in the gaps between "Dad, where's that thing?” and rides to

wherever—grabbing ideas on his phone, on a drum machine while waiting for

a flight, and on the mirror in soap.

And he's honest that some of those soap notes make no sense the next day.

That's okay.

The point is capturing them so you don’t miss the ones that

really turn out to be something.

Second, the reminder that your old ideas don't expire.

A song Jesse co-wrote with Josh Thayer back when they lived together

sat on the shelf for about twenty years—until he pulled out a 12-string

and realized he could finally sing it.

And Catch and Release Program, an album he recorded in about a day and a half

in a living room, still holds up today.

So if you've got voice memos, old demos, or a box of CDs you haven't

listened to in years, go back.

There might be gold in there.

And third, that night at the party jam.

Jesse got up, hadn't played in weeks, and got blown off the stage by

players who weren't even that serious.

Instead of letting that embarrassment push him away, he let it pull him back.

He decided this mattered too much to let slide, and he

made room for it in his life.

Now here's a takeaway I want you to try this week.

Jesse said something every artist with more than one musical lane needs

if you want your music to open doors for itself, you need an

elevator pitch people can understand.

When he says "singer-songwriter," people can picture someone with an

acoustic guitar telling a story.

When he says "a diverse concept album that ties different

genres together,” not so much.

So grab a notebook and write one sentence that answers, "What kind of music do I

make?" Use words a stranger can picture: the genre, the main instrument, and the

feeling you want people to walk away with.

If you're working in more than one lane like Jesse is, and like I do, give each

lane its own bin and its own sentence.

Then put that sentence where people meet you first: the top of your

website, your bio, your booking emails.

When people can picture what you do, it's so much easier for them

to say yes to coming to your show, booking you, or pressing play.

Clarity is a gift you give your listener.

If this episode encouraged you, please take thirty seconds to follow

Second Verse and leave a rating or review wherever you're listening.

It really does help more artists who are finding their way back

to music discover this show.

It costs you nothing, but it can mean a lot

Now you can find Jesse at bravetigerrecords.com, where Catch

and Release Program is out now, and on Bandcamp under Jesse Sterling Harrison.

And if you've got a backyard or a living room and a few friends who'd

come listen, he loves house shows.

Everything is linked in the show notes.

And if you missed my conversation with Joshua David Thayer of

Brave Tiger Records, go back and listen to Season 2, Episode 10.

Jesse told us his whole philosophy comes down to this: if it's not fun, why do it?

So let's end on exactly that note.

Here's "Your Favorite" by Jesse Sterling Harrison.